Posted by: tom on 11:24am Wed 14 Mar 07
The subway needs to be extended but it is significant that it is being restricted to the east end where Labours elected members,regardless of how little they do nor how much in expenses they claim, have jobs for life. Celtic Park where so many Labour counsillors, MPs and MSPs have season tickets will also have its own dedicated station
The subway needs to be extended but it is significant that it is being restricted to the east end where Labours elected members,regardless of how little they do nor how much in expenses they claim, have jobs for life. Celtic Park where so many Labour counsillors, MPs and MSPs have season tickets will also have its own dedicated station
Posted by: A Citizen Of, Glasgow on 11:31am Wed 14 Mar 07
So there's a spare £2.6bn up for grabs, smashin'... T'would be nice to think that the existing Clockwork Orange could be brought up-to-date with this money. "Plan Of Action - 1)Continue existing subway with minimum investment" lol - Why minimum investment? Fix the problem at hand before you look further afield (I'm sure £2.6bn would cover that!) - Why should Glasgow citizens and visitors suffer by relying on an already exhausted taxi & bus service (especially on Friday / Saturday nights). As the subway currently doesn't operate in the weekend evenings then there's no problem upgrading during this time. Invest the money where it's [bold]needed[/bold] and GET GLASGOW MOVING - ACOG
So there's a spare £2.6bn up for grabs, smashin'... T'would be nice to think that the existing Clockwork Orange could be brought up-to-date with this money. "Plan Of Action - 1)Continue existing subway with minimum investment" lol - Why minimum investment? Fix the problem at hand before you look further afield (I'm sure £2.6bn would cover that!) - Why should Glasgow citizens and visitors suffer by relying on an already exhausted taxi & bus service (especially on Friday / Saturday nights). As the subway currently doesn't operate in the weekend evenings then there's no problem upgrading during this time. Invest the money where it's
needed and GET GLASGOW MOVING - ACOG
Posted by: wheelchair user, glasgow on 12:36pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Lets hope the improvements allow wheelchair users to travel. At the moment were barred. Then again I'm supposed to stay at home and keep quiet.
Lets hope the improvements allow wheelchair users to travel. At the moment were barred. Then again I'm supposed to stay at home and keep quiet.
Posted by: Ross, Glasgow on 12:50pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Yet again GCC surpass themselves
Another "Celtic" oriented policy (close on the heels of buying back land for a few hundred K that they sold Celtic a decade earlier for £1)
One Scotland - Many Cultures - One Political Agenda
Yet again GCC surpass themselves
Another "Celtic" oriented policy (close on the heels of buying back land for a few hundred K that they sold Celtic a decade earlier for £1)
One Scotland - Many Cultures - One Political Agenda
Posted by: Doug Bradley, Cathcart on 12:57pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Has no-one noticed that we already have our own subway station at Ibrox? Or have i imagined that nightmare experience on matchday? It's nonsense to suggest that this has anything to with what team folk support. I do want the subway extended south though and will lobby my councillor accordingly! I hope others do likewise.
Has no-one noticed that we already have our own subway station at Ibrox? Or have i imagined that nightmare experience on matchday? It's nonsense to suggest that this has anything to with what team folk support. I do want the subway extended south though and will lobby my councillor accordingly! I hope others do likewise.
Posted by: Ross, Glasgow on 12:57pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Following on - have a look at the image http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/largeimage.php?imid=445440
Ibrox Stadium doesn't even exist on their Graphic even though a few hundred thousand people use it every year - It's not on their radar, it's not on their agenda.
Remember for the disused railway line at Ibrox to be made useable - GCC, SPT and the Scottish Executive wish Rangers to fund it themselves.
One Scotland - Many Cultures - One Political Agenda
Following on - have a look at the image http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/largeimage.php?imid=445440
Ibrox Stadium doesn't even exist on their Graphic even though a few hundred thousand people use it every year - It's not on their radar, it's not on their agenda.
Remember for the disused railway line at Ibrox to be made useable - GCC, SPT and the Scottish Executive wish Rangers to fund it themselves.
One Scotland - Many Cultures - One Political Agenda
Posted by: Grant Thoms aka Tartan Hero, Glasgow on 1:24pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Quite right Doug - Ibrox has been served by Copland Road for decades, its time all major sporting stadia including Hampden have appropriate transport links to stop people using cars. It is a nightmare living in the surrounding neighbours of Ibrox and Parkhead - and I have and do live near both.
Quite right Doug - Ibrox has been served by Copland Road for decades, its time all major sporting stadia including Hampden have appropriate transport links to stop people using cars. It is a nightmare living in the surrounding neighbours of Ibrox and Parkhead - and I have and do live near both.
Posted by: The Taxpayer, Glasgow on 1:27pm Wed 14 Mar 07
And who pays for all of this? The Subway may well need attention, but to suggest that we spent £2.6 bn to expand it, also means £2.6 bn less money for something else.
And who pays for all of this? The Subway may well need attention, but to suggest that we spent £2.6 bn to expand it, also means £2.6 bn less money for something else.
Posted by: D Reynolds, Glasgow on 1:30pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Its a Great idea.And should have been done years ago,Dumbarton rd byres rd great western road small biz would suffer without the subway,So it makes sence to expand it.But i think if the executive has anything to do with it ,they will stick a plaster over it,meantime wasteing millions on Edinburghs tram system that doent make sense,The expansion must go ahead ,
Its a Great idea.And should have been done years ago,Dumbarton rd byres rd great western road small biz would suffer without the subway,So it makes sence to expand it.But i think if the executive has anything to do with it ,they will stick a plaster over it,meantime wasteing millions on Edinburghs tram system that doent make sense,The expansion must go ahead ,
Posted by: tom on 1:32pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Well said Ross. When the subway was originally built, Rangers were not at Ibrox and therefore the station was not specifically for them. This proposal serves to give Celtic its own station at public expense but no doubt Messrs Reid, McConnell, Mossan et al will be shown due thanks. Unfortunately Doug I fear all money will be spent in the east end powerbase to accomodate all the other money being spent on taking the Commonwealth Games to that area, and not spent in a more deserving area such as yours
Well said Ross. When the subway was originally built, Rangers were not at Ibrox and therefore the station was not specifically for them. This proposal serves to give Celtic its own station at public expense but no doubt Messrs Reid, McConnell, Mossan et al will be shown due thanks. Unfortunately Doug I fear all money will be spent in the east end powerbase to accomodate all the other money being spent on taking the Commonwealth Games to that area, and not spent in a more deserving area such as yours
Posted by: Ross, Glasgow on 1:37pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Grant, you just contradicted yourself.
You want proper transport links for all stadia to stop so many cars parking in the area surrounding - citing Ibrox as the example.
You then go onto say that there is still a problem with cars at Ibrox.
So any expansion of the subway will provide no benefit in your goal.
It's quite simple - the majority who attend these stadia do not live in Glasgow boundaries. People would rather take the car than head all the way into Glasgow Central to then head back out to their destination.
Therefore the quest to have the disused railway station at Ibrox sorted out is a much better option for your goal - the people of the clyde coast who frequent Ibrox would have a direct link. That takes in Paisley which is a main hub for people coming in from Ayrshire also.
You could see anything up to a 50% drop in cars at Ibrox with that one.
Grant, you just contradicted yourself.
You want proper transport links for all stadia to stop so many cars parking in the area surrounding - citing Ibrox as the example.
You then go onto say that there is still a problem with cars at Ibrox.
So any expansion of the subway will provide no benefit in your goal.
It's quite simple - the majority who attend these stadia do not live in Glasgow boundaries. People would rather take the car than head all the way into Glasgow Central to then head back out to their destination.
Therefore the quest to have the disused railway station at Ibrox sorted out is a much better option for your goal - the people of the clyde coast who frequent Ibrox would have a direct link. That takes in Paisley which is a main hub for people coming in from Ayrshire also.
You could see anything up to a 50% drop in cars at Ibrox with that one.
Posted by: CelticTigress, Glasgow on 1:51pm Wed 14 Mar 07
As a Westender I use the subway constantly and definately agree that it should be expanded.
Comments form some posters re a political agenda are shocking and smack of paranoia.
The gentrification of the east end of the city has been going on for years. The Merchant city over spill has to be catered for.
A subway link at Celtic Park has also been spoken about for years, it makes sense because it would provide invaluable revenue or would some of you rather the subway system continued to lose money rather than provide a service for Celtic fans? It would also incorporate the forge shopping area so....
As a Westender I use the subway constantly and definately agree that it should be expanded.
Comments form some posters re a political agenda are shocking and smack of paranoia.
The gentrification of the east end of the city has been going on for years. The Merchant city over spill has to be catered for.
A subway link at Celtic Park has also been spoken about for years, it makes sense because it would provide invaluable revenue or would some of you rather the subway system continued to lose money rather than provide a service for Celtic fans? It would also incorporate the forge shopping area so....
Posted by: Stephen, Edinburgh on 1:53pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I'm over the moon to read this article. An overhaul of the subway system is long over-due and in my opinion, considering the many years of neglect the subway has faced, £2.6bn is very reasonable. My only concern is that; do these proposals go far enough for Scotlands greatest city.
I'm over the moon to read this article. An overhaul of the subway system is long over-due and in my opinion, considering the many years of neglect the subway has faced, £2.6bn is very reasonable. My only concern is that; do these proposals go far enough for Scotlands greatest city.
Posted by: tom on 2:25pm Wed 14 Mar 07
celtic tigress accusing others of paranoia..pot to kettle comes to mind. There is no objection to a station at Celtic Park in principle, only that public money is being spent to accomodate it. Celtic plc should be required to pay for it though.
celtic tigress accusing others of paranoia..pot to kettle comes to mind. There is no objection to a station at Celtic Park in principle, only that public money is being spent to accomodate it. Celtic plc should be required to pay for it though.
Posted by: alan, glasgow on 2:26pm Wed 14 Mar 07
This whole deal of extending the subway has been going on for years, remember in 1999 the (then) Strathclyde Regional Council were going to reintroduce trams betweem Maryhill - Easterhouse, Drumchaple - Tollcross etc (with the Maryhill Terminus terminating where the old Maryhill Central Station was, and going by the old rail route via Botanic Gardens and Kelvinbridge?) It never took off and some of the land where the station used to be is now concreted over and is now a Bingo Hall.
As for Celtic Park, SPT are going to build a new train Station near to the Forge Shopping Centre, so there will be no requirement for a subway station, Dalmarnock has its own subway station as does Denniston - In the form of Bellgrove, Duke Street AND Alexandra Park stations. The Gorbals is not far from Bridge Street Subway, and there are plenty of connections by bus to the Royal infirmary from Buchanan St Subway and getting the plentiful supply of busses from outside Queen St Station.
I am not saying its NOT a good idea to extend the subway, but in order for the People of Glasgow to Feel the full benefits, I feel it should be extended beyond a silly wee circle serving the newly gentrified areas of the East End.
For Example - Have a service between Easterhouse and Erskine. Easterhouse Train Station is so out of the way for many people within the estate, and there are VERY limited buses there, why not have a subway service which cuts thru underneath the city diagonally, to serve, not just Easterhouse (and have a station at the shopping centre) but also have a station at Glasgow Fort Shopping Centre.
It Can utilise existing overground track which is not used and serve a neighbourhood which is badly served with Buses and Trains such as Erskine and have a stop at Glasgow Airport, and also serve Govan and Paisley, which will also benefit the many people going to Glasgow Airport. Or is my theory far too ambitious
This whole deal of extending the subway has been going on for years, remember in 1999 the (then) Strathclyde Regional Council were going to reintroduce trams betweem Maryhill - Easterhouse, Drumchaple - Tollcross etc (with the Maryhill Terminus terminating where the old Maryhill Central Station was, and going by the old rail route via Botanic Gardens and Kelvinbridge?) It never took off and some of the land where the station used to be is now concreted over and is now a Bingo Hall.
As for Celtic Park, SPT are going to build a new train Station near to the Forge Shopping Centre, so there will be no requirement for a subway station, Dalmarnock has its own subway station as does Denniston - In the form of Bellgrove, Duke Street AND Alexandra Park stations. The Gorbals is not far from Bridge Street Subway, and there are plenty of connections by bus to the Royal infirmary from Buchanan St Subway and getting the plentiful supply of busses from outside Queen St Station.
I am not saying its NOT a good idea to extend the subway, but in order for the People of Glasgow to Feel the full benefits, I feel it should be extended beyond a silly wee circle serving the newly gentrified areas of the East End.
For Example - Have a service between Easterhouse and Erskine. Easterhouse Train Station is so out of the way for many people within the estate, and there are VERY limited buses there, why not have a subway service which cuts thru underneath the city diagonally, to serve, not just Easterhouse (and have a station at the shopping centre) but also have a station at Glasgow Fort Shopping Centre.
It Can utilise existing overground track which is not used and serve a neighbourhood which is badly served with Buses and Trains such as Erskine and have a stop at Glasgow Airport, and also serve Govan and Paisley, which will also benefit the many people going to Glasgow Airport. Or is my theory far too ambitious
Posted by: Iain, Leyland on 2:34pm Wed 14 Mar 07
although at first view it does indeed look like this is a case of friends in high places looking after their own by wanting a link to parkhead, I would suggest that on this occasion it probably goes against their wishes - after all are they not the ones who keep banging on about "walk on walk on" ?
although at first view it does indeed look like this is a case of friends in high places looking after their own by wanting a link to parkhead, I would suggest that on this occasion it probably goes against their wishes - after all are they not the ones who keep banging on about "walk on walk on" ?
Posted by: CelticTigress, Glasgow on 2:36pm Wed 14 Mar 07
[quote][bold]tom[/bold] wrote:
celtic tigress accusing others of paranoia..pot to kettle comes to mind. There is no objection to a station at Celtic Park in principle, only that public money is being spent to accomodate it. Celtic plc should be required to pay for it though. [/quote] Well I can only see evidence of paranoia from others and not myself.
Why should Celtic pay for a subway station? Do you think that a subway station will increase revenue for Celtic? Do Celtic or Rangers or ANY football club in Glasgow have to pay for the bus stops that operate around their respective stadia?
The fact is teh subway does not make any money. I would advocate a price increase as I would be willing to pay mor than £1. However the service does need to be expanded, it already covers teh south and West of the city so why not go for more lucrative stops in the East of the City? Why ignore the potential of approx 30k extra passengers to take football fans to a stadium?
Cutting your nose off to spite your face comes to mind
tom wrote:
celtic tigress accusing others of paranoia..pot to kettle comes to mind. There is no objection to a station at Celtic Park in principle, only that public money is being spent to accomodate it. Celtic plc should be required to pay for it though.
Well I can only see evidence of paranoia from others and not myself.
Why should Celtic pay for a subway station? Do you think that a subway station will increase revenue for Celtic? Do Celtic or Rangers or ANY football club in Glasgow have to pay for the bus stops that operate around their respective stadia?
The fact is teh subway does not make any money. I would advocate a price increase as I would be willing to pay mor than £1. However the service does need to be expanded, it already covers teh south and West of the city so why not go for more lucrative stops in the East of the City? Why ignore the potential of approx 30k extra passengers to take football fans to a stadium?
Cutting your nose off to spite your face comes to mind
Posted by: Stef, Glasgow on 2:36pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Ross. Get a life.
Posted by: Andrew, Glasgow on 2:49pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I think the subway should be extended. I live in Dalmarnock in the East End of Glasgow and am a regular subway user. I attend a drama group in Maryhill and would be very grateful for to have a wider choice of transport. It would also be of great benefit to the economy of the areas that each new station would serve, mine included.
I think the subway should be extended. I live in Dalmarnock in the East End of Glasgow and am a regular subway user. I attend a drama group in Maryhill and would be very grateful for to have a wider choice of transport. It would also be of great benefit to the economy of the areas that each new station would serve, mine included.
Posted by: Tom, Bishopbriggs on 3:04pm Wed 14 Mar 07
As a rangers fan I have no problem whatsover with the east end including celtic park getting a subway service, which by luck rangers fans have had the benefit of for years.
Anyone who uses it on match days knows they have to leave about 15mins early anyway to beat the Q anyway.
If it city traffic down, then it is a good idea - although the cost seems massive??
I would point out that there should be some proviso made that no investment takes place without agreement on 24 hour service and holiday service. As we truly lag behind the rest of the world when it comes to operating hours, and have let the trade unions demands prevent progression too long.
As a rangers fan I have no problem whatsover with the east end including celtic park getting a subway service, which by luck rangers fans have had the benefit of for years.
Anyone who uses it on match days knows they have to leave about 15mins early anyway to beat the Q anyway.
If it city traffic down, then it is a good idea - although the cost seems massive??
I would point out that there should be some proviso made that no investment takes place without agreement on 24 hour service and holiday service. As we truly lag behind the rest of the world when it comes to operating hours, and have let the trade unions demands prevent progression too long.
Posted by: Ross, Glasgow on 3:05pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Those telling me to grow up.
- Someone else has pointed out that there are already train improvements being proposed for Celtic Park.
- Someone else has pointed out that the National Stadium at Hampden is being ignored.
I'm not being petty, I'm not being paranoid, unless you are the east end of Glasgow you are getting nothing from GCC, it's about time they re-branded the leaflets - Pay up for Celtic.
I mean why do you honestly think the new Sports Arena is planned next door to Parkhead ? Believe me Celtic will be using it within weeks of the commonwealth games fnishing on the pretence that it is earning Glasgow money.
The subway network (transport network) should be improved to benefit the whole of Glasgow - not just one area where the people of GCC frequent most often.
One Scotland - Many Cultures - One Political Agenda
Those telling me to grow up.
- Someone else has pointed out that there are already train improvements being proposed for Celtic Park.
- Someone else has pointed out that the National Stadium at Hampden is being ignored.
I'm not being petty, I'm not being paranoid, unless you are the east end of Glasgow you are getting nothing from GCC, it's about time they re-branded the leaflets - Pay up for Celtic.
I mean why do you honestly think the new Sports Arena is planned next door to Parkhead ? Believe me Celtic will be using it within weeks of the commonwealth games fnishing on the pretence that it is earning Glasgow money.
The subway network (transport network) should be improved to benefit the whole of Glasgow - not just one area where the people of GCC frequent most often.
One Scotland - Many Cultures - One Political Agenda
Posted by: JazzM, Glasgow on 3:44pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I think the re-development plan is an excellent idea although i would be surprised if it actually went ahead.
As for bonkers Ross - my sides have been splitting listening to your paranoid rantings. It really does amaze me how blinkered some folk can be.
I think the re-development plan is an excellent idea although i would be surprised if it actually went ahead.
As for bonkers Ross - my sides have been splitting listening to your paranoid rantings. It really does amaze me how blinkered some folk can be.
Posted by: celtic fan, spain on 3:46pm Wed 14 Mar 07
You beauty!!! We are getting our very own subway station!!
It feels like Christmas....thank you GCC!
Seriously though, just how are Celtic going to benefit from this? Its hardly going to bring in aextra 10,000 fans for each game, is it?
You beauty!!! We are getting our very own subway station!!
It feels like Christmas....thank you GCC!
Seriously though, just how are Celtic going to benefit from this? Its hardly going to bring in aextra 10,000 fans for each game, is it?
Posted by: cletic fan, spain on 3:47pm Wed 14 Mar 07
You beauty!!! We are getting our very own subway station!!
It feels like Christmas....thank you GCC!
Seriously though, just how are Celtic going to benefit from this? Its hardly going to bring in aextra 10,000 fans for each game, is it?
You beauty!!! We are getting our very own subway station!!
It feels like Christmas....thank you GCC!
Seriously though, just how are Celtic going to benefit from this? Its hardly going to bring in aextra 10,000 fans for each game, is it?
Posted by: Grant, Crosshill on 3:57pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Ross, the East End of Glasgow is in desperate need of help. It is the most socially deprived area in the Western World. And that help is needed for many races, creeds, colours and supporters of all or no football teams.
Whatever your agenda against Celtic is, stop blinkering yourself from the problems of your fellow citizens.
Look at Andrew. He wants to go to his drama group. So you will deny him that because of your hatred of some football team?
And please don't bring Hampden into it, you aren't fooling anyone. That area of the south side has been served by a fantastic rail service for over a century. And it never did Queen's Park one bit of good.
Ross, the East End of Glasgow is in desperate need of help. It is the most socially deprived area in the Western World. And that help is needed for many races, creeds, colours and supporters of all or no football teams.
Whatever your agenda against Celtic is, stop blinkering yourself from the problems of your fellow citizens.
Look at Andrew. He wants to go to his drama group. So you will deny him that because of your hatred of some football team?
And please don't bring Hampden into it, you aren't fooling anyone. That area of the south side has been served by a fantastic rail service for over a century. And it never did Queen's Park one bit of good.
Posted by: Doug Bradley, Cathcart on 4:38pm Wed 14 Mar 07
And people outside the west of Scotland think we are obsessed with football and 300-odd year old wars..............
And people outside the west of Scotland think we are obsessed with football and 300-odd year old wars..............
Posted by: Andy Watson, Partick, Glasgow on 4:49pm Wed 14 Mar 07
This development is long overdue, let's get on with it ASAP.
This development is long overdue, let's get on with it ASAP.
Posted by: Bill Forbes, Cambuslang on 4:53pm Wed 14 Mar 07
The proposed subway extension looks like a great idea, but perhaps it looks greater than it really is – the SPT are famous for making themselves look busy; presenting some pretty pictures then by the time action is needed the price doubles.
Q1. Why has it taken two years to do the study?
Q2. Only two months ago the SPT announced a 20 year master transport plan (RTS) for the Region – why were these fantastic plans not included?
Q3. If the RTS is to be believed, any plans for the Subway come in to being after 2016 – I smell an election approaching!
As part of the RTS, I submitted a plan entitled Glasgow Subway a 2020 Vision. This incorporated a refurbishment of the existing Subway (including full disabled access and a new three platform station serving Ibrox; a new modern second line running in the Clyde from the Airport through Braehead, the Southern General, Glasgow Harbour, Govan, the SECC, Broomielaw, St. Enoch, the Law Courts, Bridgeton, Dalmarnock, Celtic Park (three platforms), Parkhead Forge, Carntyne, Edinburgh Road, and a loop through Glasgow Fort, Easterhouse, Garrowhill and Barlanark.
A future extension shows a further new line serving South Glasgow – via line going through Ibrox, Bellahouston and splitting to connect the new Silverburn Shopping Centre and Newton Mearns in the south west, whilst the other branch developed a station for the Victoria Infirmary and Hampden (three platforms).
All this would be controlled from one single depot – the expanded Broomloan Road depot – does the SPT scheme have two depots?
With extensive park and ride and integration with existing rail and bus routes I would argue that this would serve Glasgow’s travelling public better. Glasgow is a strong retail city, it is important that we work with those who have invested heavily in new shopping provisions to provide a safe, cheap and efficient mode of transport. Similarly, only last week we had Alistair Watson wishing to charge the Health Board for transportation to the new Southern General. Where in his new plan are there specific provisions for health care transport?
Hoever perhaps the biggest condemnation goes to the Evening Times. The paper was sent three copies of my plan and it didn’t receive one mention – never mind a front page banner headline. Something to do with not wishing to upset a major advertiser?
My web site www.subway2020.com will soon be live but anybody wishing a copy of my report can have one by e-mailing me direct at wilforbes@aol.com and anybody who supports a call to have the Evening Times publish my proposals would also be welcomed!
The proposed subway extension looks like a great idea, but perhaps it looks greater than it really is – the SPT are famous for making themselves look busy; presenting some pretty pictures then by the time action is needed the price doubles.
Q1. Why has it taken two years to do the study?
Q2. Only two months ago the SPT announced a 20 year master transport plan (RTS) for the Region – why were these fantastic plans not included?
Q3. If the RTS is to be believed, any plans for the Subway come in to being after 2016 – I smell an election approaching!
As part of the RTS, I submitted a plan entitled Glasgow Subway a 2020 Vision. This incorporated a refurbishment of the existing Subway (including full disabled access and a new three platform station serving Ibrox; a new modern second line running in the Clyde from the Airport through Braehead, the Southern General, Glasgow Harbour, Govan, the SECC, Broomielaw, St. Enoch, the Law Courts, Bridgeton, Dalmarnock, Celtic Park (three platforms), Parkhead Forge, Carntyne, Edinburgh Road, and a loop through Glasgow Fort, Easterhouse, Garrowhill and Barlanark.
A future extension shows a further new line serving South Glasgow – via line going through Ibrox, Bellahouston and splitting to connect the new Silverburn Shopping Centre and Newton Mearns in the south west, whilst the other branch developed a station for the Victoria Infirmary and Hampden (three platforms).
All this would be controlled from one single depot – the expanded Broomloan Road depot – does the SPT scheme have two depots?
With extensive park and ride and integration with existing rail and bus routes I would argue that this would serve Glasgow’s travelling public better. Glasgow is a strong retail city, it is important that we work with those who have invested heavily in new shopping provisions to provide a safe, cheap and efficient mode of transport. Similarly, only last week we had Alistair Watson wishing to charge the Health Board for transportation to the new Southern General. Where in his new plan are there specific provisions for health care transport?
Hoever perhaps the biggest condemnation goes to the Evening Times. The paper was sent three copies of my plan and it didn’t receive one mention – never mind a front page banner headline. Something to do with not wishing to upset a major advertiser?
My web site www.subway2020.com will soon be live but anybody wishing a copy of my report can have one by e-mailing me direct at wilforbes@aol.com and anybody who supports a call to have the Evening Times publish my proposals would also be welcomed!
Posted by: Paul Nicol, Bishopbriggs on 4:53pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Am I missing something here. Is there not already an underground station at Ibrox. In fact there are Three in close vicinity to Ibrox stadium.
So this one political agenda stuff, should read one sectarian agenda by those who spout this rubbish.
We all know what YOUR agenda is.
Last time I looked there are a lot more than Celtic fans living all over the east-end Two areas , Dennistoun and Dalmarnock being paricular to one half of the Old Firm divide.
And to be honest as a taxi driver this would cost me business so I am not even sure I would welcome this through my sheer selfishness.
Am I missing something here. Is there not already an underground station at Ibrox. In fact there are Three in close vicinity to Ibrox stadium.
So this one political agenda stuff, should read one sectarian agenda by those who spout this rubbish.
We all know what YOUR agenda is.
Last time I looked there are a lot more than Celtic fans living all over the east-end Two areas , Dennistoun and Dalmarnock being paricular to one half of the Old Firm divide.
And to be honest as a taxi driver this would cost me business so I am not even sure I would welcome this through my sheer selfishness.
Posted by: Ian Brown, Glasgow on 5:14pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I think you need to take a look at modernising the current subway before looking to expand. Priorities must be larger trains, improved safety, better access for stations. Perhaps a model to look at would be the copenhagen subway modern subway system.
I think you need to take a look at modernising the current subway before looking to expand. Priorities must be larger trains, improved safety, better access for stations. Perhaps a model to look at would be the copenhagen subway modern subway system.
Posted by: Gordon Waddell, Glasgow on 5:18pm Wed 14 Mar 07
[quote][bold]alan[/bold] wrote:
This whole deal of extending the subway has been going on for years, remember in 1999 the (then) Strathclyde Regional Council were going to reintroduce trams betweem Maryhill - Easterhouse, Drumchaple - Tollcross etc (with the Maryhill Terminus terminating where the old Maryhill Central Station was, and going by the old rail route via Botanic Gardens and Kelvinbridge?) It never took off and some of the land where the station used to be is now concreted over and is now a Bingo Hall. As for Celtic Park, SPT are going to build a new train Station near to the Forge Shopping Centre, so there will be no requirement for a subway station, Dalmarnock has its own subway station as does Denniston - In the form of Bellgrove, Duke Street AND Alexandra Park stations. The Gorbals is not far from Bridge Street Subway, and there are plenty of connections by bus to the Royal infirmary from Buchanan St Subway and getting the plentiful supply of busses from outside Queen St Station. I am not saying its NOT a good idea to extend the subway, but in order for the People of Glasgow to Feel the full benefits, I feel it should be extended beyond a silly wee circle serving the newly gentrified areas of the East End. For Example - Have a service between Easterhouse and Erskine. Easterhouse Train Station is so out of the way for many people within the estate, and there are VERY limited buses there, why not have a subway service which cuts thru underneath the city diagonally, to serve, not just Easterhouse (and have a station at the shopping centre) but also have a station at Glasgow Fort Shopping Centre. It Can utilise existing overground track which is not used and serve a neighbourhood which is badly served with Buses and Trains such as Erskine and have a stop at Glasgow Airport, and also serve Govan and Paisley, which will also benefit the many people going to Glasgow Airport. Or is my theory far too ambitious[/quote] No. sorry Alan the Strathclyde Tram proposal was engineered by Charles Gordon and malcom Waugh and brought to the public attention back in 1992, when SRC was still in existence until it got the chop by John Major, and so did any tram network proposal mainly claimed that it did not do anything to alleviate traffic problems.
alan wrote:
This whole deal of extending the subway has been going on for years, remember in 1999 the (then) Strathclyde Regional Council were going to reintroduce trams betweem Maryhill - Easterhouse, Drumchaple - Tollcross etc (with the Maryhill Terminus terminating where the old Maryhill Central Station was, and going by the old rail route via Botanic Gardens and Kelvinbridge?) It never took off and some of the land where the station used to be is now concreted over and is now a Bingo Hall. As for Celtic Park, SPT are going to build a new train Station near to the Forge Shopping Centre, so there will be no requirement for a subway station, Dalmarnock has its own subway station as does Denniston - In the form of Bellgrove, Duke Street AND Alexandra Park stations. The Gorbals is not far from Bridge Street Subway, and there are plenty of connections by bus to the Royal infirmary from Buchanan St Subway and getting the plentiful supply of busses from outside Queen St Station. I am not saying its NOT a good idea to extend the subway, but in order for the People of Glasgow to Feel the full benefits, I feel it should be extended beyond a silly wee circle serving the newly gentrified areas of the East End. For Example - Have a service between Easterhouse and Erskine. Easterhouse Train Station is so out of the way for many people within the estate, and there are VERY limited buses there, why not have a subway service which cuts thru underneath the city diagonally, to serve, not just Easterhouse (and have a station at the shopping centre) but also have a station at Glasgow Fort Shopping Centre. It Can utilise existing overground track which is not used and serve a neighbourhood which is badly served with Buses and Trains such as Erskine and have a stop at Glasgow Airport, and also serve Govan and Paisley, which will also benefit the many people going to Glasgow Airport. Or is my theory far too ambitious
No. sorry Alan the Strathclyde Tram proposal was engineered by Charles Gordon and malcom Waugh and brought to the public attention back in 1992, when SRC was still in existence until it got the chop by John Major, and so did any tram network proposal mainly claimed that it did not do anything to alleviate traffic problems.
Posted by: Gordon Waddell, Glasgow on 5:26pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I can't believe the amount of people that are moaning and annoyed at some decent public transport idea which could become a reality, but like everything else proposed over the past 30 years or so, it may not become a reality.
The government are against Crossrail so with the East End being poor in terms of society and economy as well as people having a grudge against a station at Celtic Park for some bizarre reason then you have to ask, what do these people want? We have a cowboy bus service and a bit part rail operation so why do we have so much opposition? The south side and west end are served well with bus and rail so why do we have to extend subway services into the south. The north side by the looks of things is non-existant in any plan for Glasgow as a whole and probably always has been!
I can't believe the amount of people that are moaning and annoyed at some decent public transport idea which could become a reality, but like everything else proposed over the past 30 years or so, it may not become a reality.
The government are against Crossrail so with the East End being poor in terms of society and economy as well as people having a grudge against a station at Celtic Park for some bizarre reason then you have to ask, what do these people want? We have a cowboy bus service and a bit part rail operation so why do we have so much opposition? The south side and west end are served well with bus and rail so why do we have to extend subway services into the south. The north side by the looks of things is non-existant in any plan for Glasgow as a whole and probably always has been!
Posted by: A S on 5:27pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Re MAP of "How the Subway might look". I'm surprised that it's coloured blue and orange -wouldn't GREEN AND ORANGE have been more appropriate??? The old 'Corpie' colours revisited? (let alone the political and/or football references)!!
Re MAP of "How the Subway might look". I'm surprised that it's coloured blue and orange -wouldn't GREEN AND ORANGE have been more appropriate??? The old 'Corpie' colours revisited? (let alone the political and/or football references)!!
Posted by: Subway User, Hillhead on 5:31pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I think the Subway expansion is a great idea, and unless I'm reading it wrong, the existing system would also be refurbished at the same time. However, I heard the new line would be on a different guage to the current one - does this mean a new depot for the new line? I presume that SPT does not intend to widen the existing tunnels - the system would be closed for months to do this. So why have 2 guages and 2 sets of trains?
Wheelchair access should be provided at all stations - perhaps the stairs/escalators could be replaced with ramps? They wouldn't break down, as lifts would, given the current escalator situation!
I would also be interested to know how much Rangers FC pays SPT for the extra football trains for Ibrox - or do the taxpayers already pay for them? If so, likewise for Parkhead. As someone has already said, the station is there to earn MONEY.
And if this is built, it could go further...a system like the Manchester Metrolink to replace the Cathcart Circle and its branches perhaps...
I think the Subway expansion is a great idea, and unless I'm reading it wrong, the existing system would also be refurbished at the same time. However, I heard the new line would be on a different guage to the current one - does this mean a new depot for the new line? I presume that SPT does not intend to widen the existing tunnels - the system would be closed for months to do this. So why have 2 guages and 2 sets of trains?
Wheelchair access should be provided at all stations - perhaps the stairs/escalators could be replaced with ramps? They wouldn't break down, as lifts would, given the current escalator situation!
I would also be interested to know how much Rangers FC pays SPT for the extra football trains for Ibrox - or do the taxpayers already pay for them? If so, likewise for Parkhead. As someone has already said, the station is there to earn MONEY.
And if this is built, it could go further...a system like the Manchester Metrolink to replace the Cathcart Circle and its branches perhaps...
Posted by: john, lanark on 5:32pm Wed 14 Mar 07
these characters tom and ross, highlight what is wrong with this country, they are totally paranoid and biggotted beyond belief, scary stuff.
these characters tom and ross, highlight what is wrong with this country, they are totally paranoid and biggotted beyond belief, scary stuff.
Posted by: Marc Fullerton, London on 5:52pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Ross, whille your paranoid rantings may be lapped up by the RST and on places like FF they simply appear petty and pathetic on more balanced forums.
You appear the only one with an agenda here and its one not remotely based on fact.
Yes, there are already train improvements being proposed for the Celtic Park/indoor arena. But like the subway plans these are at a very early stage. The liklihood of all these proposals actually coming to fruition is next to none with the reality being it will be one scheme over the other.
Surely it is right that all rail options are considered before a truly informed choice can be made?
As for the point about the National Stadium being ignored. Of course it would be good to see transport links to Hampden improved but you can't call for this without fully acknowledging that the need for such improvements is much greater at Celtic Park.
After all Celtic Park is used much more frequently and by a far greater number of people than Hampden during the course of a year.It would take some twisted logic to twist that fact.
When you look at the Science Centre, new transport museum, Glasgow harbour, revamped SEEC site and arena it is obvious that prime, iconic redevelopment and regeneration work is taking place throughout the city - with the riverfront in particular being at the forefront of such plans.
For you to then begrudge the east end - an area which for generations has suffered from some of Scotland's highest levels of deprivation and high unemployment - purely on the basis of your own all to obvious prejudice is rather sad. Shame on you.
PS nice wee sign off but I think you forgot to add WATP.
Ross, whille your paranoid rantings may be lapped up by the RST and on places like FF they simply appear petty and pathetic on more balanced forums.
You appear the only one with an agenda here and its one not remotely based on fact.
Yes, there are already train improvements being proposed for the Celtic Park/indoor arena. But like the subway plans these are at a very early stage. The liklihood of all these proposals actually coming to fruition is next to none with the reality being it will be one scheme over the other.
Surely it is right that all rail options are considered before a truly informed choice can be made?
As for the point about the National Stadium being ignored. Of course it would be good to see transport links to Hampden improved but you can't call for this without fully acknowledging that the need for such improvements is much greater at Celtic Park.
After all Celtic Park is used much more frequently and by a far greater number of people than Hampden during the course of a year.It would take some twisted logic to twist that fact.
When you look at the Science Centre, new transport museum, Glasgow harbour, revamped SEEC site and arena it is obvious that prime, iconic redevelopment and regeneration work is taking place throughout the city - with the riverfront in particular being at the forefront of such plans.
For you to then begrudge the east end - an area which for generations has suffered from some of Scotland's highest levels of deprivation and high unemployment - purely on the basis of your own all to obvious prejudice is rather sad. Shame on you.
PS nice wee sign off but I think you forgot to add WATP.
Posted by: celtic fan, 271-214 on 6:10pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I'm voting for Bill Forbes' plan because he is giving us not one, not two, but THREE platforms at Celtic Park!!
go on yourself Bill!
I'm voting for Bill Forbes' plan because he is giving us not one, not two, but THREE platforms at Celtic Park!!
go on yourself Bill!
Posted by: Tradesman on 6:18pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I am astonished at some of the comments here. Some of you give our city a bad name. The existing proposed changes to the rail infrastructure in the East End will barely make any difference to those travelling to Parkhead on match days, the proposed station at the Forge is only slightly closer to Parkhead than Dalmarnock station. And I think you will find the new station is not to serve Celtic plc. but to serve the Forge, the new Sports HQ, the velodrome and that little thing called the Commonwealth Games which we have a **** good chance of getting now.
I think extending the subway is a fantastic idea, we should be appluading the inclusion of it in this report.
The East End used to be well served by stations,most were closed down years ago,if there was a hidden agenda at the Council they would be proposing opening up the old rail tunnel under London Road and building a station there, right at the entrance of Parkhead.
Ibrox is well served by the subway and I happen to think that is a very good thing. Let's support a bit of decent vision when we get the chance.
I am astonished at some of the comments here. Some of you give our city a bad name. The existing proposed changes to the rail infrastructure in the East End will barely make any difference to those travelling to Parkhead on match days, the proposed station at the Forge is only slightly closer to Parkhead than Dalmarnock station. And I think you will find the new station is not to serve Celtic plc. but to serve the Forge, the new Sports HQ, the velodrome and that little thing called the Commonwealth Games which we have a **** good chance of getting now.
I think extending the subway is a fantastic idea, we should be appluading the inclusion of it in this report.
The East End used to be well served by stations,most were closed down years ago,if there was a hidden agenda at the Council they would be proposing opening up the old rail tunnel under London Road and building a station there, right at the entrance of Parkhead.
Ibrox is well served by the subway and I happen to think that is a very good thing. Let's support a bit of decent vision when we get the chance.
Posted by: Henry, Hyndland on 6:30pm Wed 14 Mar 07
The East End of Glasgow is one of the most deprived parts of Europe and extending transport links will help regenerate it. That's all that matters. Parkhead in Glasgow is presently a desert, and sorting that out is the priority.
I am amazed and disgusted by the petty minded people who prate on about football - it is irrelevant except for a few obsessed and pathetic specimens who don't give a stuff about their fellow Glaswegians. I agree with the person earlier who suggested painting the trains amber and green - the old Corporation colours.
The East End of Glasgow is one of the most deprived parts of Europe and extending transport links will help regenerate it. That's all that matters. Parkhead in Glasgow is presently a desert, and sorting that out is the priority.
I am amazed and disgusted by the petty minded people who prate on about football - it is irrelevant except for a few obsessed and pathetic specimens who don't give a stuff about their fellow Glaswegians. I agree with the person earlier who suggested painting the trains amber and green - the old Corporation colours.
Posted by: george mcleod, Oban on 7:15pm Wed 14 Mar 07
2.6Bn Vision is aptly named.
Where is all this money coming from?
We have the Olympics in England at a great cost.
A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls.
I smell electioneering.
2.6Bn Vision is aptly named.
Where is all this money coming from?
We have the Olympics in England at a great cost.
A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls.
I smell electioneering.
Posted by: george mcleod, Oban on 7:19pm Wed 14 Mar 07
2.6Bn Vision is aptly named.
Where is all this money coming from?
We have the Olympics in England at a great cost.
A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls.
I smell electioneering.
2.6Bn Vision is aptly named.
Where is all this money coming from?
We have the Olympics in England at a great cost.
A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls.
I smell electioneering.
Posted by: hugh khan, fort william on 7:29pm Wed 14 Mar 07
[quote][bold]george mcleod[/bold] wrote:
2.6Bn Vision is aptly named.
Where is all this money coming from?
We have the Olympics in England at a great cost.
A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls.
I smell electioneering.[/quote] Why is all this expenditure centralised in the central belt, when the rest of Scotland is crying out for better roads, hospitals etc.
We can`t even get a NHS dentist here.
george mcleod wrote:
2.6Bn Vision is aptly named.
Where is all this money coming from?
We have the Olympics in England at a great cost.
A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls.
I smell electioneering.
Why is all this expenditure centralised in the central belt, when the rest of Scotland is crying out for better roads, hospitals etc.
We can`t even get a NHS dentist here.
Posted by: A S on 7:59pm Wed 14 Mar 07
[quote][bold]A S[/bold] wrote:
Re MAP of "How the Subway might look". I'm surprised that it's coloured blue and orange -wouldn't GREEN AND ORANGE have been more appropriate??? The old 'Corpie' colours revisited? (let alone the political and/or football references)!![/quote] I was suggesting, totally 'tongue-in-cheek', that subway trains on a 'blue line' might not appeal to travellers to/from a station at Celtic Park!!
A S wrote:
Re MAP of "How the Subway might look". I'm surprised that it's coloured blue and orange -wouldn't GREEN AND ORANGE have been more appropriate??? The old 'Corpie' colours revisited? (let alone the political and/or football references)!!
I was suggesting, totally 'tongue-in-cheek', that subway trains on a 'blue line' might not appeal to travellers to/from a station at Celtic Park!!
Posted by: Andrew Stephen on 8:01pm Wed 14 Mar 07
[quote][bold]hugh khan[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]george mcleod[/bold] wrote: 2.6Bn Vision is aptly named. Where is all this money coming from? We have the Olympics in England at a great cost. A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls. I smell electioneering.[/quote] Why is all this expenditure centralised in the central belt, when the rest of Scotland is crying out for better roads, hospitals etc. We can`t even get a NHS dentist here.[/quote] MASSES OF PEOPLE!
hugh khan wrote:
george mcleod wrote: 2.6Bn Vision is aptly named. Where is all this money coming from? We have the Olympics in England at a great cost. A Train service to Edinburgh Airport,Commonwealth Games, and now this scheme,in the meantime we have poor road systems that need extensive overhauls. I smell electioneering.
Why is all this expenditure centralised in the central belt, when the rest of Scotland is crying out for better roads, hospitals etc. We can`t even get a NHS dentist here.
MASSES OF PEOPLE!
Posted by: expat, London on 8:59pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Some of you guys need to take time out and think about the stuff you're writing on this site. To drag an argument on the development of the city you live in, down to this level, is shameful.
Seems to me that no matter how much is spent on making Glasgow a 21st century city, with attitudes like these, the Dear Green Place* will always be stuck in the 1690's.
* I suppose the person who coined this phrase must have been a Tim.
Some of you guys need to take time out and think about the stuff you're writing on this site. To drag an argument on the development of the city you live in, down to this level, is shameful.
Seems to me that no matter how much is spent on making Glasgow a 21st century city, with attitudes like these, the Dear Green Place* will always be stuck in the 1690's.
* I suppose the person who coined this phrase must have been a Tim.
Posted by: Bill Forbes, Cambuslang on 9:46pm Wed 14 Mar 07
[quote][bold]celtic fan[/bold] wrote:
I\'m voting for Bill Forbes\' plan because he is giving us not one, not two, but THREE platforms at Celtic Park!! go on yourself Bill![/quote] Thanks for your support Celtic Fan, but there is no great favouritism shown here – I also propose the same for Ibrox and Hampden – its simple really the extra track allows for a holding train to cope with the passenger surges and the platforms then allow for alighting and entering from different sides of the train.
Also, all the chat about whether one part of Glasgow needs this more than the other isn’t really relevant. The need for this investment should be established by existing and projected traffic patterns, not by postcodes; and the biggest traffic movements through the City at the moment are east to west, and from the south (as witnessed by the traffic on the M8 and M77). Both these flows look set to become bigger with massive expansion proposals at Bishopton and Newton Mearns. I can’t quite work out where the SPT plans are serving – their inspiration seems to be to create another neat circle serving the inner East End – yet all the big traffic generators are outwith their planned route.
I’m sorry for being so negative, Expat but this vision will never happen. At a cost of £2.6bn the fares would not be able to compete with the current bus systems serving the same routes.
Where’s the joined up thinking? The Glasgow Harbour development is to get its own wee bendy bus system, the East End regeneration is to get a second Subway, and new roads are the suggested solution to providing the Southern General with better access. The SPT’s recently published plan for the next 20 years shows just that – a piecemeal approach and no overall strategy. No matter the colour of the next Executive this one will be thrown out.
celtic fan wrote:
I\'m voting for Bill Forbes\' plan because he is giving us not one, not two, but THREE platforms at Celtic Park!! go on yourself Bill!
Thanks for your support Celtic Fan, but there is no great favouritism shown here – I also propose the same for Ibrox and Hampden – its simple really the extra track allows for a holding train to cope with the passenger surges and the platforms then allow for alighting and entering from different sides of the train.
Also, all the chat about whether one part of Glasgow needs this more than the other isn’t really relevant. The need for this investment should be established by existing and projected traffic patterns, not by postcodes; and the biggest traffic movements through the City at the moment are east to west, and from the south (as witnessed by the traffic on the M8 and M77). Both these flows look set to become bigger with massive expansion proposals at Bishopton and Newton Mearns. I can’t quite work out where the SPT plans are serving – their inspiration seems to be to create another neat circle serving the inner East End – yet all the big traffic generators are outwith their planned route.
I’m sorry for being so negative, Expat but this vision will never happen. At a cost of £2.6bn the fares would not be able to compete with the current bus systems serving the same routes.
Where’s the joined up thinking? The Glasgow Harbour development is to get its own wee bendy bus system, the East End regeneration is to get a second Subway, and new roads are the suggested solution to providing the Southern General with better access. The SPT’s recently published plan for the next 20 years shows just that – a piecemeal approach and no overall strategy. No matter the colour of the next Executive this one will be thrown out.
Posted by: Rainbow on 10:07pm Wed 14 Mar 07
RED or yellow or pink or GREEN, purple or ORANGE or BLUE! Can we build a subway, build a subway, build a subway new?
RED or yellow or pink or GREEN, purple or ORANGE or BLUE! Can we build a subway, build a subway, build a subway new?
Posted by: Ashley, Ayrshire on 10:10pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I'd love to know where SPT think they are going to get £2.6 BN from. Seems a bit excessive to build seven railway stations, many of which are likely to be lightly used.
I'd love to know where SPT think they are going to get £2.6 BN from. Seems a bit excessive to build seven railway stations, many of which are likely to be lightly used.
Posted by: Stephen, Paisley on 10:12pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Ross,
It's a great idea to expand the subway. As a person who uses it daily i can see that it currently only benefits a small section of the city. Also the DLR is a great system and would be a great option too if it would be cheaper (there are no drivers).
But mainly your comments only show the narrowmindedness of you and your fellow bigots.
Ross,
It's a great idea to expand the subway. As a person who uses it daily i can see that it currently only benefits a small section of the city. Also the DLR is a great system and would be a great option too if it would be cheaper (there are no drivers).
But mainly your comments only show the narrowmindedness of you and your fellow bigots.
Posted by: Bill Forbes, Cambuslang on 10:41pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Just to follow up on previous comments – the City Council web site shows that, at best, the new Subway would serve some 48,453 people. With a £2.3bn price tag we would be cheaper giving every single one of them [bold]£47,468.68[/bold] and asking them to get the bus.
Just to follow up on previous comments – the City Council web site shows that, at best, the new Subway would serve some 48,453 people. With a £2.3bn price tag we would be cheaper giving every single one of them
£47,468.68 and asking them to get the bus.
Posted by: jf, glasgow on 1:28am Thu 15 Mar 07
anybody who thinks this plan is worth 2.whatever billion should remember the S Parliment building cost over-run. The subway barely covers the south of the city not even approaching areas like giffnock shawlands or clarkston who could all use a station headed their way. Why should all investment in glasgow go to labour dominated councils.
anybody who thinks this plan is worth 2.whatever billion should remember the S Parliment building cost over-run. The subway barely covers the south of the city not even approaching areas like giffnock shawlands or clarkston who could all use a station headed their way. Why should all investment in glasgow go to labour dominated councils.
Posted by: John Smith, Blairdardie on 9:13am Thu 15 Mar 07
What a sad city we live in. When discussion arises about an improved transport system it all comes back to what team you support. It's time for the good men and women of Glasgow to grow up and put a stop to all this sectarian nonsense.
What a sad city we live in. When discussion arises about an improved transport system it all comes back to what team you support. It's time for the good men and women of Glasgow to grow up and put a stop to all this sectarian nonsense.
Posted by: David, Glasgow on 9:30am Thu 15 Mar 07
[quote][bold]jf[/bold] wrote:
anybody who thinks this plan is worth 2.whatever billion should remember the S Parliment building cost over-run. The subway barely covers the south of the city not even approaching areas like giffnock shawlands or clarkston who could all use a station headed their way. Why should all investment in glasgow go to labour dominated councils.[/quote] The East End is a public transport desert.
Shawlands has three local train stations (Shawlands, Crossmyloof and Pollokshaws West) as well as about a dozen regular bus services, two of which run through the night.
East of Bridgeton there's one rail line in the East End with about three stops in Glasgow city.
As for Clarkston and Giffnock - they're not in Glasgow. The day that folk who live in the leafy suburbs of East Renfrewshire and East Dunbartonshire do all their shopping and socialising in the low-council-tax burghs they live in - instead of coming into Glasgow to use the facilities that Glaswegians pay for - is the day they can moan about investment coming into the city.
jf wrote:
anybody who thinks this plan is worth 2.whatever billion should remember the S Parliment building cost over-run. The subway barely covers the south of the city not even approaching areas like giffnock shawlands or clarkston who could all use a station headed their way. Why should all investment in glasgow go to labour dominated councils.
The East End is a public transport desert.
Shawlands has three local train stations (Shawlands, Crossmyloof and Pollokshaws West) as well as about a dozen regular bus services, two of which run through the night.
East of Bridgeton there's one rail line in the East End with about three stops in Glasgow city.
As for Clarkston and Giffnock - they're not in Glasgow. The day that folk who live in the leafy suburbs of East Renfrewshire and East Dunbartonshire do all their shopping and socialising in the low-council-tax burghs they live in - instead of coming into Glasgow to use the facilities that Glaswegians pay for - is the day they can moan about investment coming into the city.
Posted by: C. Cochrane, Bridgetion on 3:51pm Thu 15 Mar 07
as a resident in the East end of glasgow am a fequent user of the low ground serice but shocked and appaled at the public transport provided across the east and not just the city in general is an absoulte joke ediburgh gets a tram system what do we get a super bus with a dedicated route woopi do giveing the current economics its defo a mean city when it comes to investing in its futre of rather apeasement to the motorist lobby but for those that dont drive like me a rely on public transport so its worth the money and if we got the current one for 111 years dosent that suggest a hundred mores worth it they shouled pull together and stop being cheap
as a resident in the East end of glasgow am a fequent user of the low ground serice but shocked and appaled at the public transport provided across the east and not just the city in general is an absoulte joke ediburgh gets a tram system what do we get a super bus with a dedicated route woopi do giveing the current economics its defo a mean city when it comes to investing in its futre of rather apeasement to the motorist lobby but for those that dont drive like me a rely on public transport so its worth the money and if we got the current one for 111 years dosent that suggest a hundred mores worth it they shouled pull together and stop being cheap
Posted by: Glasgow Residents Network on 4:42pm Thu 15 Mar 07
There is no doubt that public transport needs to be upgraded throughout this city. It is universally derided by anyone that uses it.
There was a time when (believe it or not) the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and other European powers would send their advisers as special envoys to Glasgow to see 'an integrated transport system' in use. Looking at old maps of the city is just so sad. It used to be that subwaycars, trains, trams and the road network linked up successfully. It's now hard to get around and citizens of the city have to campaign to save their pitiful bus services just in order to get about. In places like Dumchapel, or Easterhouse most people simply don't have a car, and rely on public trasport to access our city's centre or other communities. Given that it's absolutely shocking that major investment has not happened already - what are our taxes for anyway? It's a question of political priorities.
However it is not on for a group of councillors to just arbitrarily decide to allocate our money towards something so important (afterall their predecessors messed it all up the first time, and it's this city council that wants to demolish half the East End to build a road). Citizens of this city should be taking those decisions. However in order to make those kind of decisions we need to know the kind of information those councillors and civil servants have access to. They'll justify keeping us in the dark so that they can take decisions without any scrutiny, and then they'll hide information from us so that they can say we don't have access to the information to make informed decisions. Regardless of the daft caricature being struck by Tom and Ross most people aren't daft and have their community and their family's best interest at heart. We have to decide what sort of legacy we want to leave for our children - a city like Houston in Texas where you need a car to get around, where there's no green spaces, where the air is poisonous to breathe, and where people don't talk to each other and communities have been exchanged for dormitories, or where we enjoy a civic culture that is good for our health and where everyone is valued, and whole communities aren't left to rot (as they are now).
The Glasgow Residents Network has Bill Forbes' subway plans online for your comments. We need a debate on our transport infrastructure that's centred on our needs and our communities. This is our city - it's time we took ownership of it.
www.glasgowresidents.wordpress.com
There is no doubt that public transport needs to be upgraded throughout this city. It is universally derided by anyone that uses it.
There was a time when (believe it or not) the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and other European powers would send their advisers as special envoys to Glasgow to see 'an integrated transport system' in use. Looking at old maps of the city is just so sad. It used to be that subwaycars, trains, trams and the road network linked up successfully. It's now hard to get around and citizens of the city have to campaign to save their pitiful bus services just in order to get about. In places like Dumchapel, or Easterhouse most people simply don't have a car, and rely on public trasport to access our city's centre or other communities. Given that it's absolutely shocking that major investment has not happened already - what are our taxes for anyway? It's a question of political priorities.
However it is not on for a group of councillors to just arbitrarily decide to allocate our money towards something so important (afterall their predecessors messed it all up the first time, and it's this city council that wants to demolish half the East End to build a road). Citizens of this city should be taking those decisions. However in order to make those kind of decisions we need to know the kind of information those councillors and civil servants have access to. They'll justify keeping us in the dark so that they can take decisions without any scrutiny, and then they'll hide information from us so that they can say we don't have access to the information to make informed decisions. Regardless of the daft caricature being struck by Tom and Ross most people aren't daft and have their community and their family's best interest at heart. We have to decide what sort of legacy we want to leave for our children - a city like Houston in Texas where you need a car to get around, where there's no green spaces, where the air is poisonous to breathe, and where people don't talk to each other and communities have been exchanged for dormitories, or where we enjoy a civic culture that is good for our health and where everyone is valued, and whole communities aren't left to rot (as they are now).
The Glasgow Residents Network has Bill Forbes' subway plans online for your comments. We need a debate on our transport infrastructure that's centred on our needs and our communities. This is our city - it's time we took ownership of it.
www.glasgowresidents.wordpress.com
Posted by: allan, brisbane on 11:05pm Thu 15 Mar 07
i can assure you here in brisbane australia until recent times our public transport system was the absolute pits re state gov rail. city council bus fleet. and some private bus lines. nothing co ordinated finally they got their heads together and translink was created public transport was made attractive to use millions being spent re purpose built busways actually bris city is quite a shambles at this time whilst they dig out new underground busway our trains/buses so popular translink in great difficulty in buying new buses and trains i reckon you should have just the one public transport department to over lord all public transport in where it is required it seems to be years of talk talk talk it was the same in brisbane until we got translink. translink is actually a division of our state goverment
i can assure you here in brisbane australia until recent times our public transport system was the absolute pits re state gov rail. city council bus fleet. and some private bus lines. nothing co ordinated finally they got their heads together and translink was created public transport was made attractive to use millions being spent re purpose built busways actually bris city is quite a shambles at this time whilst they dig out new underground busway our trains/buses so popular translink in great difficulty in buying new buses and trains i reckon you should have just the one public transport department to over lord all public transport in where it is required it seems to be years of talk talk talk it was the same in brisbane until we got translink. translink is actually a division of our state goverment
Posted by: Craig, Glasgow on 11:25pm Thu 15 Mar 07
It seems to make generally good sense to extend urban mass transport to the east end and is in a ssense extending the 'greater city centre'. However, it totally misses out the rest of the city - south, north, out-lying suburbs etc.
Edinburgh's tram system is costing ~£0.5Bn for a much bigger network - 1/5 the cost of the Glasgow eastern subway circle. Why don't we spend the £2.6Bn closing in the subway and installing a cross-city tram system that replaces the existing subway, extends to offer an equivalent to the east end subway circle and also extends sound, north and ultimately to the suburbs in further phases. This is what they have in Newcastle with the metro and have been expanding it gradually for almost 30 years.
£2.6Bn on the subway is a massive amount of money for not a lot. It also doesn't provide phased expansion thereafter. Trams are they way forward and will offer much better value than the subway expansion and can be extended more easily in time.
It seems to make generally good sense to extend urban mass transport to the east end and is in a ssense extending the 'greater city centre'. However, it totally misses out the rest of the city - south, north, out-lying suburbs etc.
Edinburgh's tram system is costing ~£0.5Bn for a much bigger network - 1/5 the cost of the Glasgow eastern subway circle. Why don't we spend the £2.6Bn closing in the subway and installing a cross-city tram system that replaces the existing subway, extends to offer an equivalent to the east end subway circle and also extends sound, north and ultimately to the suburbs in further phases. This is what they have in Newcastle with the metro and have been expanding it gradually for almost 30 years.
£2.6Bn on the subway is a massive amount of money for not a lot. It also doesn't provide phased expansion thereafter. Trams are they way forward and will offer much better value than the subway expansion and can be extended more easily in time.
Posted by: Bill Forbes, Cambuslang on 8:48am Fri 16 Mar 07
Allan,
Is it warm there just now? – Lucky devil!
Yeah, Brisbane and Queensland have quite a success story on how they tackled their disjointed transport set up. I had a look at it when I was preparing our plans for the Subway modernisation. Another good example is Vancouver (also called Translink) where a fully coordinated state wide approach has been adopted – all overseen by a small professional board. Brisbane’s Board is 13 strong; Vancouver’s Board is 15 and our own SPT is, yes you’ve guessed, 28. So until we address that particular issue I imagine we’ll be stuck with years of talk, talk as you say.
Craig,
Your suggestion of closing the Subway was actually one of the options considered by the SPT’s consultants. Not very inspiring! If things got that bad we would be better off combining the existing twin tunnels into one single tunnel and introduce modern fast trains to a standard gauge and specification whizzing round the circuit in a single direction. We should still regard the Subway as an asset and whilst we have that asset we should utilise it to the fullest before we consider alternatives.Your Newcastle example is good but similarly I don’t know of any Subway system anywhere in the world that does not have a firm expansion plan, and yes it may take 30 years but at least if the plan is set then everybody can work to it.
It that respect the Glasgow Subway is unique, not only was it the third underground rail system in the world, not only does it operate in a single circuit, not only does it have a unique gauge and locomotive system but it is the only one that has never been expanded nor has set plans to expand.
I think this returns the matter back to the Board.
Allan,
Is it warm there just now? – Lucky devil!
Yeah, Brisbane and Queensland have quite a success story on how they tackled their disjointed transport set up. I had a look at it when I was preparing our plans for the Subway modernisation. Another good example is Vancouver (also called Translink) where a fully coordinated state wide approach has been adopted – all overseen by a small professional board. Brisbane’s Board is 13 strong; Vancouver’s Board is 15 and our own SPT is, yes you’ve guessed, 28. So until we address that particular issue I imagine we’ll be stuck with years of talk, talk as you say.
Craig,
Your suggestion of closing the Subway was actually one of the options considered by the SPT’s consultants. Not very inspiring! If things got that bad we would be better off combining the existing twin tunnels into one single tunnel and introduce modern fast trains to a standard gauge and specification whizzing round the circuit in a single direction. We should still regard the Subway as an asset and whilst we have that asset we should utilise it to the fullest before we consider alternatives.Your Newcastle example is good but similarly I don’t know of any Subway system anywhere in the world that does not have a firm expansion plan, and yes it may take 30 years but at least if the plan is set then everybody can work to it.
It that respect the Glasgow Subway is unique, not only was it the third underground rail system in the world, not only does it operate in a single circuit, not only does it have a unique gauge and locomotive system but it is the only one that has never been expanded nor has set plans to expand.
I think this returns the matter back to the Board.
Posted by: Mr Russell on 10:26am Fri 16 Mar 07
I am sorry to say this but SPT's plan is too little too late. The Evening Times should not support this. There needs to be a clean out at the SPT. They have done nothing with the potential offered by the Subway hub. What is really needed is a underground network built into the southside leading up to East Kilbride and Newton Mearns. Subway stations should be built at Shawlands , Clarkston , Eastwood , Giffnock , Pollok , Newton Mearns , East Kilbride. The Subway needs to go where its needed. The Subway idea for the east end is laziness. It will not be useful to Glasgow or the west of Scotland. And if you think the my idea of a metropolitan subway system will cost too much European funding can be secured. The subway system needs to go beyond what the SPT envisions.
I am sorry to say this but SPT's plan is too little too late. The Evening Times should not support this. There needs to be a clean out at the SPT. They have done nothing with the potential offered by the Subway hub. What is really needed is a underground network built into the southside leading up to East Kilbride and Newton Mearns. Subway stations should be built at Shawlands , Clarkston , Eastwood , Giffnock , Pollok , Newton Mearns , East Kilbride. The Subway needs to go where its needed. The Subway idea for the east end is laziness. It will not be useful to Glasgow or the west of Scotland. And if you think the my idea of a metropolitan subway system will cost too much European funding can be secured. The subway system needs to go beyond what the SPT envisions.
Posted by: Matthew forlow, Glasgow on 9:24pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Only in Glasgow, would a story regarding the upgrading of a rundown transport system turn into a Celtc/Rangers issue. Funny if it didnt show that bigotry runs right to the core of this "Cosmopolitan" city.
Only in Glasgow, would a story regarding the upgrading of a rundown transport system turn into a Celtc/Rangers issue. Funny if it didnt show that bigotry runs right to the core of this "Cosmopolitan" city.
Posted by: Bill Forbes, Cambuslang on 1:53am Mon 19 Mar 07
I couldn’t agree more Mr Russell, but the reality is that the SPT was only granted its new status as the West of Scotland Transport Authority last year and since then they have geared up with a big, BIG expansion of their staff and an aggressive stance on their position as transport authority where they now also seek powers over the roads and new rules for their control of buses. This is a quango out of control and the Evening Times in particular is not going to stop them. When the SPT says “jump” the E.T. says “how many times and how high?” – such is the power of the vast advertising budget that the SPT spends with SMG (haven’t you noticed the massive increase in T.V., press and poster ads all going to the E.T. and its associated companies?).
You have also adequately summed up the approach they should adopt when considering new transport investment “The Subway needs to go where its needed” there is no evidence of that approach being adopted with their East End Circle.
If you would like to see an alternative plan drop me an email at wilforbes@aol.com and I’ll send you a copy of a report which shows a possible south side expansion of the Subway.
I couldn’t agree more Mr Russell, but the reality is that the SPT was only granted its new status as the West of Scotland Transport Authority last year and since then they have geared up with a big, BIG expansion of their staff and an aggressive stance on their position as transport authority where they now also seek powers over the roads and new rules for their control of buses. This is a quango out of control and the Evening Times in particular is not going to stop them. When the SPT says “jump” the E.T. says “how many times and how high?” – such is the power of the vast advertising budget that the SPT spends with SMG (haven’t you noticed the massive increase in T.V., press and poster ads all going to the E.T. and its associated companies?).
You have also adequately summed up the approach they should adopt when considering new transport investment “The Subway needs to go where its needed” there is no evidence of that approach being adopted with their East End Circle.
If you would like to see an alternative plan drop me an email at wilforbes@aol.com and I’ll send you a copy of a report which shows a possible south side expansion of the Subway.
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