Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 11:05am Thu 4 Oct 07
We all know the arguements, and despite what MSP Pauline McNeil said at the meeting, [italic]"but the question is will be be listened to!"[/italic]
That from the MSP who denied receiving any complaints at all on Mansefield Park ? Lets hope she can be true to herself, if not to the electorate. Clever words, Ms McNeil.
The very fact 300 people turned up says alot in itself. The level of public feeling is clear.
People want to be fully informed of the facts, and fully engaged with through the entire planning process. Start to finish. Not just told about developments approval afterwards.
Its just about people puting that passion, conviction and feeling into words, on paper and a signed letter of objection to the relevant department (Planning.) As every letter received will have to be acknowleged, and replied to. And by using the official process, people stand a far greater chance of letting Glasgow City Council know exactly what they think of this Stefan King Botanics proposal.
Act now, think later! Join together, and see the power in numbers. But - this fight to save our heritage, tourist attraction and place of leisure, and relaxation has only just begun.
We all know the arguements, and despite what MSP Pauline McNeil said at the meeting,
"but the question is will be be listened to!"
That from the MSP who denied receiving any complaints at all on Mansefield Park ? Lets hope she can be true to herself, if not to the electorate. Clever words, Ms McNeil.
The very fact 300 people turned up says alot in itself. The level of public feeling is clear.
People want to be fully informed of the facts, and fully engaged with through the entire planning process. Start to finish. Not just told about developments approval afterwards.
Its just about people puting that passion, conviction and feeling into words, on paper and a signed letter of objection to the relevant department (Planning.) As every letter received will have to be acknowleged, and replied to. And by using the official process, people stand a far greater chance of letting Glasgow City Council know exactly what they think of this Stefan King Botanics proposal.
Act now, think later! Join together, and see the power in numbers. But - this fight to save our heritage, tourist attraction and place of leisure, and relaxation has only just begun.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 11:07am Thu 4 Oct 07
Oops - slip of the fingers - meant to say:
We all know the arguements, and despite what MSP Pauline McNeil said at the meeting, "but the question is will [bold]we[/bold] be listened to!" ( who ever we refers to.)
Oops - slip of the fingers - meant to say:
We all know the arguements, and despite what MSP Pauline McNeil said at the meeting, "but the question is will
we be listened to!" ( who ever we refers to.)
Posted by: david on 1:27pm Thu 4 Oct 07
[bold]Its boring in that park.[/bold]
I for one welcome a mini train and somewhere to enjoy a noisey pint and a slash in a bush.
Its boring in that park.
I for one welcome a mini train and somewhere to enjoy a noisey pint and a slash in a bush.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 1:34pm Thu 4 Oct 07
Well clearly you don't care about this matter at all, based on your trivialised statement.
Lets see some intellectual points made here.
[bold]Jokesters beware![/bold]
Well clearly you don't care about this matter at all, based on your trivialised statement.
Lets see some intellectual points made here.
Jokesters beware! Posted by: Gazza, Glasgow on 1:39pm Thu 4 Oct 07
I wonder how many residents would be so angered if the plan was for a park in, say, Ruchill? Personally, I think there are far too many bars and clubs in the west end as it is and another is not justified but there is definitely some middle class hypocrisy at work here.
I wonder how many residents would be so angered if the plan was for a park in, say, Ruchill? Personally, I think there are far too many bars and clubs in the west end as it is and another is not justified but there is definitely some middle class hypocrisy at work here.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 1:53pm Thu 4 Oct 07
A park in Ruchill, and the Beautiful Botanic Gardens hardly compare here! Their not on the same league at all. Come on, try a better comparison than that!
As for the West End, who will end up paying when the pavements are strewn with vomit, fag butts,and other post nightclub litter ? US THE NAIVE TAX - PAYERS! Nice to know our Council cares about it's electorate - NOT!
A park in Ruchill, and the Beautiful Botanic Gardens hardly compare here! Their not on the same league at all. Come on, try a better comparison than that!
As for the West End, who will end up paying when the pavements are strewn with vomit, fag butts,and other post nightclub litter ? US THE NAIVE TAX - PAYERS! Nice to know our Council cares about it's electorate - NOT!
Posted by: West Ender, Glasgow on 1:57pm Thu 4 Oct 07
It always comes down to one thing....MONEY!
In the words of "Deep Throat": Just follow the money!
Who is getting paid how much by whom to make a Socialist council turn on it's supporters?
It always comes down to one thing....MONEY!
In the words of "Deep Throat": Just follow the money!
Who is getting paid how much by whom to make a Socialist council turn on it's supporters?
Posted by: Greenjohn, Glasgow on 2:11pm Thu 4 Oct 07
What about [bold]-the Morons of Glasgow- [/bold] who habitually vote Labour. They are not innocent.
It is not just the despicable politicians and their lackey officials who are to blame.
There are too many numpties in this city.
What about
-the Morons of Glasgow- who habitually vote Labour. They are not innocent.
It is not just the despicable politicians and their lackey officials who are to blame.
There are too many numpties in this city.
Posted by: mulross, Glasgow on 2:37pm Thu 4 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Gazza[/bold] wrote:
I wonder how many residents would be so angered if the plan was for a park in, say, Ruchill? Personally, I think there are far too many bars and clubs in the west end as it is and another is not justified but there is definitely some middle class hypocrisy at work here.[/quote] The idea of a millionaire businessman running a nightclub in [bold]any[/bold] Glasgow park is totally outrageous in my view.
Why is there always an attack on the perceived class "status" of the West End residents every time something like this comes up? Yes, there are [bold]some[/bold] expensive houses in [bold]parts[/bold] of the West End but it is a total myth that everyone who lives west of the city centre is middle-class.
Gazza wrote:
I wonder how many residents would be so angered if the plan was for a park in, say, Ruchill? Personally, I think there are far too many bars and clubs in the west end as it is and another is not justified but there is definitely some middle class hypocrisy at work here.
The idea of a millionaire businessman running a nightclub in
any Glasgow park is totally outrageous in my view.
Why is there always an attack on the perceived class "status" of the West End residents every time something like this comes up? Yes, there are
some expensive houses in
parts of the West End but it is a total myth that everyone who lives west of the city centre is middle-class.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 2:39pm Thu 4 Oct 07
Hey Greenjohn, never a more true word said!
The worst thing about these out of touch voters, is they pass on their right-wing, out of touch lines of thinking to their kids, and their grandkids again!
[bold]DO NONE OF US HAVE OUR OWN MINDS OR ABILITY TO FORM OUR OWN OPINIONS ANYMORE ?[/bold]
Hey Greenjohn, never a more true word said!
The worst thing about these out of touch voters, is they pass on their right-wing, out of touch lines of thinking to their kids, and their grandkids again!
DO NONE OF US HAVE OUR OWN MINDS OR ABILITY TO FORM OUR OWN OPINIONS ANYMORE ? Posted by: Big Al, Glasgow on 2:40pm Thu 4 Oct 07
Why doesn't somebody come up with something better for the site?? What do people want in its place? We are very good about complaining and protesting, however, we're not very good about coming up with alternatives.
Surely, there's got to be somebody else with a bit of money that's able to turn that into something that would really add value to the Botanics.
Why doesn't somebody come up with something better for the site?? What do people want in its place? We are very good about complaining and protesting, however, we're not very good about coming up with alternatives.
Surely, there's got to be somebody else with a bit of money that's able to turn that into something that would really add value to the Botanics.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 3:12pm Thu 4 Oct 07
Maybe then Big Al you should see alltomorrowsparticks - they are advocating for alternatives for the site in Partick. No connection, or relation to S.T.O.P.
It just takes a bit of joined up thinking, and people who care enough about their community to be the catalysts, and implement the ideas shared in the many Forums and Groups that exist.
Also worth looking at WestEndStandsTogethe
r/
Each Campaign Group in the City, and West End may have it's own aims, but ultimately they share something in common - their fighting unfair, and inflexible planning legislation, that sees applications rail-roaded through, with little thought for what the people want.
Maybe then Big Al you should see alltomorrowsparticks - they are advocating for alternatives for the site in Partick. No connection, or relation to S.T.O.P.
It just takes a bit of joined up thinking, and people who care enough about their community to be the catalysts, and implement the ideas shared in the many Forums and Groups that exist.
Also worth looking at WestEndStandsTogethe
r/
Each Campaign Group in the City, and West End may have it's own aims, but ultimately they share something in common - their fighting unfair, and inflexible planning legislation, that sees applications rail-roaded through, with little thought for what the people want.
Posted by: Heather W, Luing on 4:38pm Thu 4 Oct 07
Right I'll start off with the alternative ideas.
How about a theatre where Bard in the Botanics could be held when the weather is inclement? The park could then host more events. I'd be quite happy with a cafe that offered snacks and had a table licence.
Right I'll start off with the alternative ideas.
How about a theatre where Bard in the Botanics could be held when the weather is inclement? The park could then host more events. I'd be quite happy with a cafe that offered snacks and had a table licence.
Posted by: mulross, Glasgow on 4:38pm Thu 4 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Big Al[/bold] wrote:
Why doesn't somebody come up with something better for the site?? What do people want in its place? We are very good about complaining and protesting, however, we're not very good about coming up with alternatives.
Surely, there's got to be somebody else with a bit of money that's able to turn that into something that would really add value to the Botanics.[/quote] Yes Al, the Council have "a bit of money" but they are [bold]choosing[/bold] not to spend it on what people want for the Botanics i.e. a good quality visitor centre with a cafe. Apparently that's not one of their "priorities" according to Mr Booth last night.
As Cllr Dingwall pointed out - if they were able to come up with over 14 million pounds for an overspend on the Transport museum, then surely they can come up with a far smaller amount for the Botanic Gardens.
Big Al wrote:
Why doesn't somebody come up with something better for the site?? What do people want in its place? We are very good about complaining and protesting, however, we're not very good about coming up with alternatives.
Surely, there's got to be somebody else with a bit of money that's able to turn that into something that would really add value to the Botanics.
Yes Al, the Council have "a bit of money" but they are
choosing not to spend it on what people want for the Botanics i.e. a good quality visitor centre with a cafe. Apparently that's not one of their "priorities" according to Mr Booth last night.
As Cllr Dingwall pointed out - if they were able to come up with over 14 million pounds for an overspend on the Transport museum, then surely they can come up with a far smaller amount for the Botanic Gardens.
Posted by: N.S.00, Glasgow on 4:43pm Thu 4 Oct 07
This is utter nonsense from GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL, Their planning dept should be removed completely, they are SOOO CORRUPT its rediculous! The Council are SOO GREEDY they are willfully destroying EVERY AREA in Glasgow. Stefan King already owns just about every pub or club in the city yet his greed pushes him for yet more! Its a disgrace, I am a young citizen and FEAR what STATE the city will end up in.... as it has declined dreadfully in the last 10yrs alone. Having written numerous replys to the council, viewed other peoples and viewed plans. It is common place for the planning rules to be flouted and residents deliberately mislead. WE AS A COMMUNITY HAVE A MOMENTOUS TASK ON HAND TO STOP SUCH DESTRUCTION OF OUR AREAS ! PERHAPS HALF OF GLASGOW WITH HOLDING PAYMENT OF COUNCIL TAX WOULD MAKE THEM TAKE SOME NOTICE !!!
This is utter nonsense from GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL, Their planning dept should be removed completely, they are SOOO CORRUPT its rediculous! The Council are SOO GREEDY they are willfully destroying EVERY AREA in Glasgow. Stefan King already owns just about every pub or club in the city yet his greed pushes him for yet more! Its a disgrace, I am a young citizen and FEAR what STATE the city will end up in.... as it has declined dreadfully in the last 10yrs alone. Having written numerous replys to the council, viewed other peoples and viewed plans. It is common place for the planning rules to be flouted and residents deliberately mislead. WE AS A COMMUNITY HAVE A MOMENTOUS TASK ON HAND TO STOP SUCH DESTRUCTION OF OUR AREAS ! PERHAPS HALF OF GLASGOW WITH HOLDING PAYMENT OF COUNCIL TAX WOULD MAKE THEM TAKE SOME NOTICE !!!
Posted by: ps, glasgow on 4:51pm Thu 4 Oct 07
With regard to planning propcess:
Generally an owner of land who wishes to sell or lease for financial gain - or as suggested by Mr Booth ‘public amenity gain’- the seller seeks outline planning permission to be granted for the type of development they anticipate will be constructed by the buyer or leaser. This is usually applied for prior to any selling or leasing and comes with the selling or leasing agreement. In this way the gauge of success in achieving detail planning can be ascertained if outline planning approval is granted. Outline planning approval tends to be granted with ‘reserved matters’ which require to be resolved by the body who has applied for the outline planning approval to the satisfaction of the planning authority (the Town planning authority within Glasgow council). Matters such as environmental impact studies, security measures, traffic issues and road safety as discussed last night would most probably form part of these reserved matters and would ensure that no development can go ahead without these important matters being reported, analysed and solutions submitted prior to any construction work commencing.
It was worrying that last night that Mr Booth specifically mentioned that implications and ramifications of such a development would be resolved by G1 at detail planning application stage. As an architect I am well aware that the physicality of a design proposal is at a very developed stage once submitted for detail planning stage. The significance of this being that – The seller / leaser (Glasgow council) agreed / granted a lease with a commercial company without themselves having applied for outline planning permission to their own Town planning authority. This process would have identified what mandatory studies and remedies would be required in order that the development would be successfully executed. By side stepping this issue both Mr Booth and G1 can side step reserved matters since by definition detail planning approval cannot be granted with reserved matters – i.e. the developer is granted carte blanche to do what they propose without any peripheral studies having been carried out - such as environmental impact. What is worrying about this is that legally a developer can apply directly for detail planning thus by-passing the crucial outline stage at which times reserved matters can be placed. Furthermore land and environment services would be the very council department which would be consulted to comment on an environmental impact study in any case.
With regard to planning propcess:
Generally an owner of land who wishes to sell or lease for financial gain - or as suggested by Mr Booth ‘public amenity gain’- the seller seeks outline planning permission to be granted for the type of development they anticipate will be constructed by the buyer or leaser. This is usually applied for prior to any selling or leasing and comes with the selling or leasing agreement. In this way the gauge of success in achieving detail planning can be ascertained if outline planning approval is granted. Outline planning approval tends to be granted with ‘reserved matters’ which require to be resolved by the body who has applied for the outline planning approval to the satisfaction of the planning authority (the Town planning authority within Glasgow council). Matters such as environmental impact studies, security measures, traffic issues and road safety as discussed last night would most probably form part of these reserved matters and would ensure that no development can go ahead without these important matters being reported, analysed and solutions submitted prior to any construction work commencing.
It was worrying that last night that Mr Booth specifically mentioned that implications and ramifications of such a development would be resolved by G1 at detail planning application stage. As an architect I am well aware that the physicality of a design proposal is at a very developed stage once submitted for detail planning stage. The significance of this being that – The seller / leaser (Glasgow council) agreed / granted a lease with a commercial company without themselves having applied for outline planning permission to their own Town planning authority. This process would have identified what mandatory studies and remedies would be required in order that the development would be successfully executed. By side stepping this issue both Mr Booth and G1 can side step reserved matters since by definition detail planning approval cannot be granted with reserved matters – i.e. the developer is granted carte blanche to do what they propose without any peripheral studies having been carried out - such as environmental impact. What is worrying about this is that legally a developer can apply directly for detail planning thus by-passing the crucial outline stage at which times reserved matters can be placed. Furthermore land and environment services would be the very council department which would be consulted to comment on an environmental impact study in any case.
Posted by: N.S.00, Glasgow on 5:00pm Thu 4 Oct 07
OOPS APOLOGIES FOR MY SPELLING ECT.... THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TRY TO EMAIL ON THE SLY WHILST DOING OTHER JOBS HAHAH
OOPS APOLOGIES FOR MY SPELLING ECT.... THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TRY TO EMAIL ON THE SLY WHILST DOING OTHER JOBS HAHAH
Posted by: Big Al, Glasgow on 5:18pm Thu 4 Oct 07
[quote][bold]mulross[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Big Al[/bold] wrote:
Why doesn't somebody come up with something better for the site?? What do people want in its place? We are very good about complaining and protesting, however, we're not very good about coming up with alternatives.
Surely, there's got to be somebody else with a bit of money that's able to turn that into something that would really add value to the Botanics.[/quote] Yes Al, the Council have "a bit of money" but they are [bold]choosing[/bold] not to spend it on what people want for the Botanics i.e. a good quality visitor centre with a cafe. Apparently that's not one of their "priorities" according to Mr Booth last night.
As Cllr Dingwall pointed out - if they were able to come up with over 14 million pounds for an overspend on the Transport museum, then surely they can come up with a far smaller amount for the Botanic Gardens.[/quote] Okay, yes, the Council have a bit of money, and the Transport Museum may well be running over budget, however, it doesn't mean that its just as simple as that for them to spend it on the Botanics. Does that mean that every worthwhile project should be given money? Unforutnatley, I doubt there's enough money to go round.
With the alternatives, the theatre with cafe is an excellent idea. So, how would we be able to either convince Stefan King to amend his plans and remove the nightclub/pub, or get some other group involved?
I just think that instead of protesting, it would be much better to give the council a real alternative that has the people's backing.
mulross wrote:
Big Al wrote:
Why doesn't somebody come up with something better for the site?? What do people want in its place? We are very good about complaining and protesting, however, we're not very good about coming up with alternatives.
Surely, there's got to be somebody else with a bit of money that's able to turn that into something that would really add value to the Botanics.
Yes Al, the Council have "a bit of money" but they are choosing not to spend it on what people want for the Botanics i.e. a good quality visitor centre with a cafe. Apparently that's not one of their "priorities" according to Mr Booth last night.
As Cllr Dingwall pointed out - if they were able to come up with over 14 million pounds for an overspend on the Transport museum, then surely they can come up with a far smaller amount for the Botanic Gardens.
Okay, yes, the Council have a bit of money, and the Transport Museum may well be running over budget, however, it doesn't mean that its just as simple as that for them to spend it on the Botanics. Does that mean that every worthwhile project should be given money? Unforutnatley, I doubt there's enough money to go round.
With the alternatives, the theatre with cafe is an excellent idea. So, how would we be able to either convince Stefan King to amend his plans and remove the nightclub/pub, or get some other group involved?
I just think that instead of protesting, it would be much better to give the council a real alternative that has the people's backing.
Posted by: mulross, Glasgow on 6:00pm Thu 4 Oct 07
The Council has actually quite a lot of money Al and I don't agree that it's not that simple for them to pay for Botanics. Of course they can't pat for every worthwhile project, but if improving facilities at the Botanics is as important as [bold]they[/bold] say it is, then I'm sure they could spare a measly 2 or 3 million pounds out of their huge budget. The Botanics is hardly just any old project. Think how much money the West End Festival [bold]alone[/bold] brings in to Glasgow's economy every year.
As for convincing Stefan King to remove the nightclub - he insists that it is essential to make the project financially viable. As for getting other groups involved - I think there were a number of groups put forward proposals but the G! proposal was "the only one suitable". In other words - this contract/lease had Stefan King's name on it from the start.
As Paul's post shows, there are some very doubtful procedures accompanying this fiasco and I would "assume" that these are some of the issues that will be looked at by the legal team when challenging what the Council is attempting to do.
The whole thing stinks of having been a "done deal" before the public ever got to hear about it.
The Council has actually quite a lot of money Al and I don't agree that it's not that simple for them to pay for Botanics. Of course they can't pat for every worthwhile project, but if improving facilities at the Botanics is as important as
they say it is, then I'm sure they could spare a measly 2 or 3 million pounds out of their huge budget. The Botanics is hardly just any old project. Think how much money the West End Festival
alone brings in to Glasgow's economy every year.
As for convincing Stefan King to remove the nightclub - he insists that it is essential to make the project financially viable. As for getting other groups involved - I think there were a number of groups put forward proposals but the G! proposal was "the only one suitable". In other words - this contract/lease had Stefan King's name on it from the start.
As Paul's post shows, there are some very doubtful procedures accompanying this fiasco and I would "assume" that these are some of the issues that will be looked at by the legal team when challenging what the Council is attempting to do.
The whole thing stinks of having been a "done deal" before the public ever got to hear about it.
Posted by: Ed, Glasgow on 6:49pm Thu 4 Oct 07
We have set up a website to amongst other things report anti-social behaviour to the police as we have been told that they can do nothing if no-one gives them ammunition. Log into www.savethewestend.c
o.uk and log these incidents.
We have set up a website to amongst other things report anti-social behaviour to the police as we have been told that they can do nothing if no-one gives them ammunition. Log into www.savethewestend.c
o.uk and log these incidents.
Posted by: Martin, Kersland Street on 7:04pm Thu 4 Oct 07
I was at the meeting, having attended the last one too and my oh my was this stage managed by those opposed to it....
The heckling and shouting down that took place was a disgrace!......Peopl
e Power and the rest of those involved should hang their heads in shame. My companion actually filmed it all on his mobile phone, I'm not sure if he has downloaded it to YouTube yet when he does it I will post the link...
This opposition group is nothing more than a highly vocal and from what can be seen from last night, thuggish minority....I myself was involved in a menacing moment when I informed one loudmouth that this was all being filmed...so much for democracy then.
The majority of residents that I have spoken to, having stayed in the area for 30 years are either for or indifferent to the development.
As for this nonsense from Mr Howat about the use of 'Common Good'land, well, after the simplest of enquiries I quickly found out that no 'Common Good' asset's are or will be involved. Other than the fact that certain acccess's will need to be obtained, which is pretty normal for any sort of urban development.
Hope none of your readers are using him as their solicitor.
I was at the meeting, having attended the last one too and my oh my was this stage managed by those opposed to it....
The heckling and shouting down that took place was a disgrace!......Peopl
e Power and the rest of those involved should hang their heads in shame. My companion actually filmed it all on his mobile phone, I'm not sure if he has downloaded it to YouTube yet when he does it I will post the link...
This opposition group is nothing more than a highly vocal and from what can be seen from last night, thuggish minority....I myself was involved in a menacing moment when I informed one loudmouth that this was all being filmed...so much for democracy then.
The majority of residents that I have spoken to, having stayed in the area for 30 years are either for or indifferent to the development.
As for this nonsense from Mr Howat about the use of 'Common Good'land, well, after the simplest of enquiries I quickly found out that no 'Common Good' asset's are or will be involved. Other than the fact that certain acccess's will need to be obtained, which is pretty normal for any sort of urban development.
Hope none of your readers are using him as their solicitor.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 10:49pm Thu 4 Oct 07
[quote][bold]N.S.00[/bold] wrote:
This is utter nonsense from GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL, Their planning dept should be removed completely, they are SOOO CORRUPT its rediculous! The Council are SOO GREEDY they are willfully destroying EVERY AREA in Glasgow. Stefan King already owns just about every pub or club in the city yet his greed pushes him for yet more! Its a disgrace, I am a young citizen and FEAR what STATE the city will end up in.... as it has declined dreadfully in the last 10yrs alone. Having written numerous replys to the council, viewed other peoples and viewed plans. It is common place for the planning rules to be flouted and residents deliberately mislead. WE AS A COMMUNITY HAVE A MOMENTOUS TASK ON HAND TO STOP SUCH DESTRUCTION OF OUR AREAS ! PERHAPS HALF OF GLASGOW WITH HOLDING PAYMENT OF COUNCIL TAX WOULD MAKE THEM TAKE SOME NOTICE !!![/quote] Hurrah for the passionate and common sensical people who see right through this New Labour Planning Department who are DESTROYING our city.
ITS ALL ABOUT TELLING BOOTH EXACTLY WHAT WE THINK AT THE POLLING STATIONS AND COMING ELECTION!
A Visitor Centre, and Cafe are essential if the Botanics are to ditch and lose that horrid, wretched burger / hotdog van within it.
People with any strength of feeling whatsoever must see the need for them to do whatever it takes to sway our corrupt planning department, and politicians / councillors to see sense, and hear what WE THE PEOPLE want - not what THEY THE MONEY GRABBING, COMMUNITY DESTROYING so called representatives want for Glasgow.
ACT NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR WHEESHT - BUT PLEASE PLEASE ADDRESS ALL THESE ISSUES, COMPLAINTS AND GREAT SUGGESTIONS TO YOUR COUNCILLORS, LAND SERVICES, AND APPROPRIATE BODIES AS WELL. OTHERWISE THIS FORUM, AND ITS COMMENTS WILL HAVE BEEN A TALKING EXERCISE AND NOTHING MORE!
N.S.00 wrote:
This is utter nonsense from GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL, Their planning dept should be removed completely, they are SOOO CORRUPT its rediculous! The Council are SOO GREEDY they are willfully destroying EVERY AREA in Glasgow. Stefan King already owns just about every pub or club in the city yet his greed pushes him for yet more! Its a disgrace, I am a young citizen and FEAR what STATE the city will end up in.... as it has declined dreadfully in the last 10yrs alone. Having written numerous replys to the council, viewed other peoples and viewed plans. It is common place for the planning rules to be flouted and residents deliberately mislead. WE AS A COMMUNITY HAVE A MOMENTOUS TASK ON HAND TO STOP SUCH DESTRUCTION OF OUR AREAS ! PERHAPS HALF OF GLASGOW WITH HOLDING PAYMENT OF COUNCIL TAX WOULD MAKE THEM TAKE SOME NOTICE !!!
Hurrah for the passionate and common sensical people who see right through this New Labour Planning Department who are DESTROYING our city.
ITS ALL ABOUT TELLING BOOTH EXACTLY WHAT WE THINK AT THE POLLING STATIONS AND COMING ELECTION!
A Visitor Centre, and Cafe are essential if the Botanics are to ditch and lose that horrid, wretched burger / hotdog van within it.
People with any strength of feeling whatsoever must see the need for them to do whatever it takes to sway our corrupt planning department, and politicians / councillors to see sense, and hear what WE THE PEOPLE want - not what THEY THE MONEY GRABBING, COMMUNITY DESTROYING so called representatives want for Glasgow.
ACT NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR WHEESHT - BUT PLEASE PLEASE ADDRESS ALL THESE ISSUES, COMPLAINTS AND GREAT SUGGESTIONS TO YOUR COUNCILLORS, LAND SERVICES, AND APPROPRIATE BODIES AS WELL. OTHERWISE THIS FORUM, AND ITS COMMENTS WILL HAVE BEEN A TALKING EXERCISE AND NOTHING MORE!
Posted by: People Power on 11:02pm Thu 4 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Martin[/bold] wrote:
I was at the meeting, having attended the last one too and my oh my was this stage managed by those opposed to it.... The heckling and shouting down that took place was a disgrace!......Peopl e Power and the rest of those involved should hang their heads in shame. My companion actually filmed it all on his mobile phone, I'm not sure if he has downloaded it to YouTube yet when he does it I will post the link... This opposition group is nothing more than a highly vocal and from what can be seen from last night, thuggish minority....I myself was involved in a menacing moment when I informed one loudmouth that this was all being filmed...so much for democracy then. The majority of residents that I have spoken to, having stayed in the area for 30 years are either for or indifferent to the development. As for this nonsense from Mr Howat about the use of 'Common Good'land, well, after the simplest of enquiries I quickly found out that no 'Common Good' asset's are or will be involved. Other than the fact that certain acccess's will need to be obtained, which is pretty normal for any sort of urban development. Hope none of your readers are using him as their solicitor.[/quote] Martin, can I just correct you here, in that all my comments, objections and issues raised here have only been in this comments Board, and not through any heckling, or suchlike.
As it happens I was unwell and unable to attend this meeting which I would have greatly liked to have gone to.
Yes - I'm sure there was heckling, and that is far from what is productive. But think about it from those who are the complete opposite of the apathetic, and completely disinterested people in the political process, politics generally. Who don't vote, or have their say, go to councillor surgeries, or speak out.
Maybe all those who are shouting the loudest are in a way doing so, because they are so disillusioned and disgruntled by the whole electoral process, and the farcical council supposedly representing us, and our views.
Those who are indifferent to the development are clearly living their cushy, tucked away lifestyles, and completely disingaged from their community, and what is happening in it.
They are no role models or examples for our next generations. What we need here is far wider participation, and willingness to speak out, get involved, care about our neighbours, community members and fellow citizens.
We need to all be far more acutely aware of what this Labour rag of a council is doing in its destruction of our parks, ameneties, and green spaces! And stop being so self centred, materialistic, with far to much of a fuss made about trivial issues in this ever increasing capitalist world.
Martin wrote:
I was at the meeting, having attended the last one too and my oh my was this stage managed by those opposed to it.... The heckling and shouting down that took place was a disgrace!......Peopl e Power and the rest of those involved should hang their heads in shame. My companion actually filmed it all on his mobile phone, I'm not sure if he has downloaded it to YouTube yet when he does it I will post the link... This opposition group is nothing more than a highly vocal and from what can be seen from last night, thuggish minority....I myself was involved in a menacing moment when I informed one loudmouth that this was all being filmed...so much for democracy then. The majority of residents that I have spoken to, having stayed in the area for 30 years are either for or indifferent to the development. As for this nonsense from Mr Howat about the use of 'Common Good'land, well, after the simplest of enquiries I quickly found out that no 'Common Good' asset's are or will be involved. Other than the fact that certain acccess's will need to be obtained, which is pretty normal for any sort of urban development. Hope none of your readers are using him as their solicitor.
Martin, can I just correct you here, in that all my comments, objections and issues raised here have only been in this comments Board, and not through any heckling, or suchlike.
As it happens I was unwell and unable to attend this meeting which I would have greatly liked to have gone to.
Yes - I'm sure there was heckling, and that is far from what is productive. But think about it from those who are the complete opposite of the apathetic, and completely disinterested people in the political process, politics generally. Who don't vote, or have their say, go to councillor surgeries, or speak out.
Maybe all those who are shouting the loudest are in a way doing so, because they are so disillusioned and disgruntled by the whole electoral process, and the farcical council supposedly representing us, and our views.
Those who are indifferent to the development are clearly living their cushy, tucked away lifestyles, and completely disingaged from their community, and what is happening in it.
They are no role models or examples for our next generations. What we need here is far wider participation, and willingness to speak out, get involved, care about our neighbours, community members and fellow citizens.
We need to all be far more acutely aware of what this Labour rag of a council is doing in its destruction of our parks, ameneties, and green spaces! And stop being so self centred, materialistic, with far to much of a fuss made about trivial issues in this ever increasing capitalist world.
Posted by: Barry Mclean, Glasgow on 11:44pm Thu 4 Oct 07
i`m sorry but the site at the Botanic Gdns is an eye sore and a total waste of public land, we had a brilliant venue within one of our parks in Kelvingrove, where were all you concerned local residents when that venue went to ruin. Regeneration in the west end in the last ten years has been fabulous for the image of Glasgow, the site is derilict anyway therefore i fail to see where the impact would be, suddenly there will be "droves of drunken hooligans streaming out of one corner" whilst there has been waves of drunken idiots streaming out of a church on the opposite corner for the last few years!
I have lived in the West end most of my life and the amount of money invested in replacing the glass in the Gardens is a discrace considering it has made almost no diffrence whatsoever, all who are opposed to this development are probably the people who were against people sitting on the lawn in the middle of our OWN park in years past! If you want lots of greenery then move to the countryside!
i`m sorry but the site at the Botanic Gdns is an eye sore and a total waste of public land, we had a brilliant venue within one of our parks in Kelvingrove, where were all you concerned local residents when that venue went to ruin. Regeneration in the west end in the last ten years has been fabulous for the image of Glasgow, the site is derilict anyway therefore i fail to see where the impact would be, suddenly there will be "droves of drunken hooligans streaming out of one corner" whilst there has been waves of drunken idiots streaming out of a church on the opposite corner for the last few years!
I have lived in the West end most of my life and the amount of money invested in replacing the glass in the Gardens is a discrace considering it has made almost no diffrence whatsoever, all who are opposed to this development are probably the people who were against people sitting on the lawn in the middle of our OWN park in years past! If you want lots of greenery then move to the countryside!
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 12:17am Fri 5 Oct 07
Barry,
Give people the information, empowerment, and joined up consultations that should be manditory, but often turn out to be farcical, and then - and only then can they speak out, and mobilise forces.
All very well for you to make such generalistic statements, and clearly you're not really that bothered about this issue.
That is fine, but what is not is the fact that any venue which will promote, increase or encourage the late night consumption of alcohol, when we already have such a problem with drunks pouring out of places like "The Viper" ( formerly "Clatty Pats" )
So, lets not trivialise the seriousness of any council tactics to promote late night drinking. Their greed for the revenue and taxes are coming before the safety, health, and wishes of the people.
I'm sure A & E and Paramedics will be delighted at yet another venue, with drunks who end up hospitalised due to injury, or intoxcation. Lets think about the knock on effect here! And what we really need for the Botanics, not a quick money spinning scheme that will just balance out the Council's debt, and no doubt fund their "broken - record - player" of a Commonwealth Bid! ZZZzzzzzzz!
Barry,
Give people the information, empowerment, and joined up consultations that should be manditory, but often turn out to be farcical, and then - and only then can they speak out, and mobilise forces.
All very well for you to make such generalistic statements, and clearly you're not really that bothered about this issue.
That is fine, but what is not is the fact that any venue which will promote, increase or encourage the late night consumption of alcohol, when we already have such a problem with drunks pouring out of places like "The Viper" ( formerly "Clatty Pats" )
So, lets not trivialise the seriousness of any council tactics to promote late night drinking. Their greed for the revenue and taxes are coming before the safety, health, and wishes of the people.
I'm sure A & E and Paramedics will be delighted at yet another venue, with drunks who end up hospitalised due to injury, or intoxcation. Lets think about the knock on effect here! And what we really need for the Botanics, not a quick money spinning scheme that will just balance out the Council's debt, and no doubt fund their "broken - record - player" of a Commonwealth Bid! ZZZzzzzzzz!
Posted by: teech, west end, glasgow on 11:10am Fri 5 Oct 07
Our website, www.savethewestend.c
o.uk was set up a few months ago when we became concerned about the apparent deterioration in quality of life in the area over a short period.The more we looked into it, the more we became concerned it might be due to the late night licences which had been handed out to among others G1.So one of the objectives of the site is to try to ingather hard data from residents on incidents of anti social beaviour that concern them. The police say most people who have sleep interrupted or who witness worrying beaviour will grumble about it but won't report it to them, so they have difficulty , when dealing with licensing appilcations, giving the real statistics on the problems these venues cause. We hope that our log facility will be easy to operate and will help the police. We pass on all logs to them and the council, so our councillors can't argue they don't know the extent of the problem. Unfortunately our suspicions were correct - most of our feedback is that we are in a deteriorating position. Let's hope we can stop the rot.
Our website, www.savethewestend.c
o.uk was set up a few months ago when we became concerned about the apparent deterioration in quality of life in the area over a short period.The more we looked into it, the more we became concerned it might be due to the late night licences which had been handed out to among others G1.So one of the objectives of the site is to try to ingather hard data from residents on incidents of anti social beaviour that concern them. The police say most people who have sleep interrupted or who witness worrying beaviour will grumble about it but won't report it to them, so they have difficulty , when dealing with licensing appilcations, giving the real statistics on the problems these venues cause. We hope that our log facility will be easy to operate and will help the police. We pass on all logs to them and the council, so our councillors can't argue they don't know the extent of the problem. Unfortunately our suspicions were correct - most of our feedback is that we are in a deteriorating position. Let's hope we can stop the rot.
Posted by: mic, Glasgow on 11:14am Fri 5 Oct 07
I do not live in the area however I would hate to think that yet another faceless nightclub would get put in such a beauty spot. The quality of the social scene in the west end has went down considerably since The Loft opened and the character of the area is being ripped out. Lets stop Stefan King killing the area all together and maybe show the Labour council that they really don't have a clue when it comes to how people feel about their city.
I do not live in the area however I would hate to think that yet another faceless nightclub would get put in such a beauty spot. The quality of the social scene in the west end has went down considerably since The Loft opened and the character of the area is being ripped out. Lets stop Stefan King killing the area all together and maybe show the Labour council that they really don't have a clue when it comes to how people feel about their city.
Posted by: N.S.00, Glasgow on 11:15am Fri 5 Oct 07
BARRY ARE YOU ON DRUGS ??????? WHAT A **** !!!!
SAME WITH YOU MARTIN, ITS ABOUT TIME LOCALS STOOD UP TO ALL THIS CRAP !!!! AND I MEAN CRAP !!! IT MAKES ME ANGRY TO READ SUCH SILLY POINTS RAISED BY POEPLE LIKE YOU, YOU ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE STEFAN KING LOVES AS YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO BRAIN AND SUPPORT CHEAP, GLASS FILLED SH*T BEING BUILT ALL OVER THE CITY. PERHAPS YOU HAVE SUCKED ON ONE TOO MANY EXHAUST PIPES !!! KEEP JEERING THE COUNCIL AT THESE MEETINGS, DON'T LET THESE MORONS GET AWAY WITH IT! FURTHER MORE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WEALTH, I FOR ONE AM OUTRAGED AT THE THEFT OF ALL LOCAL GREENSPACE !!!! IN WHATEVER PART OF GLASGOW TO BE REPLACED WITH EVEN MORE SILLY NIGHTCLUBS. I GO TO THESE CLUBS AN HALF OF THEM ARE EMPTY BECAUSE THERE ARE TOOOO MANY AND THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME !!!!! IDIOTS LIKE YOU PAIR SHOULD HANG ABOUT IN FRONT OF IT PREFERABLY INFRONT OF A RATHER LARGE BUS !!! TWATS
BARRY ARE YOU ON DRUGS ??????? WHAT A **** !!!!
SAME WITH YOU MARTIN, ITS ABOUT TIME LOCALS STOOD UP TO ALL THIS CRAP !!!! AND I MEAN CRAP !!! IT MAKES ME ANGRY TO READ SUCH SILLY POINTS RAISED BY POEPLE LIKE YOU, YOU ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE STEFAN KING LOVES AS YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO BRAIN AND SUPPORT CHEAP, GLASS FILLED SH*T BEING BUILT ALL OVER THE CITY. PERHAPS YOU HAVE SUCKED ON ONE TOO MANY EXHAUST PIPES !!! KEEP JEERING THE COUNCIL AT THESE MEETINGS, DON'T LET THESE MORONS GET AWAY WITH IT! FURTHER MORE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WEALTH, I FOR ONE AM OUTRAGED AT THE THEFT OF ALL LOCAL GREENSPACE !!!! IN WHATEVER PART OF GLASGOW TO BE REPLACED WITH EVEN MORE SILLY NIGHTCLUBS. I GO TO THESE CLUBS AN HALF OF THEM ARE EMPTY BECAUSE THERE ARE TOOOO MANY AND THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME !!!!! IDIOTS LIKE YOU PAIR SHOULD HANG ABOUT IN FRONT OF IT PREFERABLY INFRONT OF A RATHER LARGE BUS !!! TWATS
Posted by: People Power, GLasgow on 2:05pm Fri 5 Oct 07
[quote][bold]mic[/bold] wrote:
I do not live in the area however I would hate to think that yet another faceless nightclub would get put in such a beauty spot. The quality of the social scene in the west end has went down considerably since The Loft opened and the character of the area is being ripped out. Lets stop Stefan King killing the area all together and maybe show the Labour council that they really don't have a clue when it comes to how people feel about their city.[/quote]
My sentiments exactly mic,
Add to that the way in which the "Grosvenor Cafe" an institution, like the University Cafe closed and became the seedy, tasteless, and characterless - "Vodka Wodka" - how unoriginal and dull.
We need to bring the life, and sparkle back into the West End, not strip it all away with such big money ventures, which do little for the peoples choice, and everything for entrepreneurs bank balances.
Cresswell Lane, with its overhead lighting, is far nicer, and Ashton Lane could do far more to improve on it's appearance at least externally.
As for Byres Road and Great Western Road. I dispair. Where are the smaller, friendly and more intimate pubs with class, character and charm ? there all going, in favour of these horrible chains, and themed bars with little to offer in terms of value for food, and an unavailability and disliking of selling non-alcoholic drinks. Very poor indeed.
Unless we cater for those who opt not to drink, and who are driving, on medication, perhaps with diabetes, epilepsy or other medical condition we will only see pubs continue to promote and advertise the cheap deals they do on the sale of alcohol.
NO NIGHTCLUB / BAR IN THE BOTANICS. WE WESTENDERS SAY: LEAVE OUR GREENSPACE ALONE!
mic wrote:
I do not live in the area however I would hate to think that yet another faceless nightclub would get put in such a beauty spot. The quality of the social scene in the west end has went down considerably since The Loft opened and the character of the area is being ripped out. Lets stop Stefan King killing the area all together and maybe show the Labour council that they really don't have a clue when it comes to how people feel about their city.
My sentiments exactly mic,
Add to that the way in which the "Grosvenor Cafe" an institution, like the University Cafe closed and became the seedy, tasteless, and characterless - "Vodka Wodka" - how unoriginal and dull.
We need to bring the life, and sparkle back into the West End, not strip it all away with such big money ventures, which do little for the peoples choice, and everything for entrepreneurs bank balances.
Cresswell Lane, with its overhead lighting, is far nicer, and Ashton Lane could do far more to improve on it's appearance at least externally.
As for Byres Road and Great Western Road. I dispair. Where are the smaller, friendly and more intimate pubs with class, character and charm ? there all going, in favour of these horrible chains, and themed bars with little to offer in terms of value for food, and an unavailability and disliking of selling non-alcoholic drinks. Very poor indeed.
Unless we cater for those who opt not to drink, and who are driving, on medication, perhaps with diabetes, epilepsy or other medical condition we will only see pubs continue to promote and advertise the cheap deals they do on the sale of alcohol.
NO NIGHTCLUB / BAR IN THE BOTANICS. WE WESTENDERS SAY: LEAVE OUR GREENSPACE ALONE!
Posted by: John Hamilton, Pacific Quay on 3:05pm Mon 8 Oct 07
Any other (*NORMAL*) city in the same situation would be RE-OPENING THE ALREADY BUILT TUNNELS AND STATIONS ALONG THE OLD RAILWAY BENEATH THE BOTANIC GARDENS.
This city really needs a drastic change of local government and to finally some people in charge who know how to run a major city properly and allow it to develop the way it should as the main city of this country.
No other city has such an excellent, ready-made asset as we have here with all the many old underground/overgrou
nd lines which should be re-opening as part of a transport plan to get the city moving and growing.
It really is beyond pathetic the way this city is being ruined and beyond pathetic that the gormless voters keep returning the same old Labour (aka New Tory) mafia instead of booting them out once-and-for-all.
Aaarrrggghhh!!!
Any other (*NORMAL*) city in the same situation would be RE-OPENING THE ALREADY BUILT TUNNELS AND STATIONS ALONG THE OLD RAILWAY BENEATH THE BOTANIC GARDENS.
This city really needs a drastic change of local government and to finally some people in charge who know how to run a major city properly and allow it to develop the way it should as the main city of this country.
No other city has such an excellent, ready-made asset as we have here with all the many old underground/overgrou
nd lines which should be re-opening as part of a transport plan to get the city moving and growing.
It really is beyond pathetic the way this city is being ruined and beyond pathetic that the gormless voters keep returning the same old Labour (aka New Tory) mafia instead of booting them out once-and-for-all.
Aaarrrggghhh!!!
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 6:19pm Mon 8 Oct 07
Well, it's people like you and I who can make that difference through time! Using our votes, and speaking out to the right people.
The level of public apathy is what really shocks me, as we all moan so much about what is happening to our city. But, just how many of us go to our Councillor / MSP Surgeries ?
Time we saw some real action, and commitment from the people here too. I truly believe we can make that difference, if we all get together far more, and make our voices heard!
Well, it's people like you and I who can make that difference through time! Using our votes, and speaking out to the right people.
The level of public apathy is what really shocks me, as we all moan so much about what is happening to our city. But, just how many of us go to our Councillor / MSP Surgeries ?
Time we saw some real action, and commitment from the people here too. I truly believe we can make that difference, if we all get together far more, and make our voices heard!
Posted by: skinnymalinky, Glasgow on 5:54pm Mon 22 Oct 07
from the website of the city council about the botanic gardens......
[italic]"Its immaculate formal gardens and arboretum provide a welcome break from the bustle of the West End"[/italic]
..not any more if the good councillors allow a certain 'businessman' to get it for 99 years!!!!
from the website of the city council about the botanic gardens......
"Its immaculate formal gardens and arboretum provide a welcome break from the bustle of the West End"
..not any more if the good councillors allow a certain 'businessman' to get it for 99 years!!!!
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