Posted by: jrb, Glasgow on 12:02pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Year on year we see the same statistics trotted out,and the same old spiel about inicitives,campaigns
, inclusion. what we need and since Glasgow, is the stab capital of Europe, is to set an example by handing out draconian prison sentences to those carrying out knife crime,evrthing else has been tried, and has had no effect,community service,restriction orders asbos, holidays,computers, nothing worked so let the "Scottish parliament" show the people of Scotland that they can,will, and do listen to their concerns...
Year on year we see the same statistics trotted out,and the same old spiel about inicitives,campaigns
, inclusion. what we need and since Glasgow, is the stab capital of Europe, is to set an example by handing out draconian prison sentences to those carrying out knife crime,evrthing else has been tried, and has had no effect,community service,restriction orders asbos, holidays,computers, nothing worked so let the "Scottish parliament" show the people of Scotland that they can,will, and do listen to their concerns...
Posted by: Johnny Punchclock, Glasgow on 12:25pm Thu 17 Jan 08
The parents. Where are they?
Feral children aren't the fault of the cops, or the schools, or the housing departmment, or social workers.
Feral, knife carrying children are the fault of the parents who are unable or uncaring or unwillng to manage their children. Of course many of these parents were themselves involved in this cycle of violence and lack the imagination, intellectual power and motivation to do anything to control their children, which is probably why they are required to live in reservations like Wellhouse and Barlanark and those other places.
It's still not fair on the children who are the victims of these parents, though.
The parents. Where are they?
Feral children aren't the fault of the cops, or the schools, or the housing departmment, or social workers.
Feral, knife carrying children are the fault of the parents who are unable or uncaring or unwillng to manage their children. Of course many of these parents were themselves involved in this cycle of violence and lack the imagination, intellectual power and motivation to do anything to control their children, which is probably why they are required to live in reservations like Wellhouse and Barlanark and those other places.
It's still not fair on the children who are the victims of these parents, though.
Posted by: Renegade on 12:48pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[bold]jrb:[/bold] [quote]everything else has been tried, and has had no effect[/quote]
Not quite. Youth facilities should be open [italic]all night[/italic], not just early evening. These facilities tend to shut around 9-10pm and the kids are left on the streets. Some of these gangbangers will doubtlessly be reluctant to go home because of violence, abuse or neglect in the home, which also needs to be addressed, where relevant.
jrb: everything else has been tried, and has had no effect
Not quite. Youth facilities should be open
all night, not just early evening. These facilities tend to shut around 9-10pm and the kids are left on the streets. Some of these gangbangers will doubtlessly be reluctant to go home because of violence, abuse or neglect in the home, which also needs to be addressed, where relevant.
Posted by: Johnny Punchclock, Glasgow on 1:01pm Thu 17 Jan 08
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway?
Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles?
Of course they don't. So why aren't [bold]they[/bold] stabbing and killing folk? I bet it's because the parents know how to handle them, and know to keep them away from the wee thugs who get all this money. Most of the stuff probably gets broken or stolen anyway.
If the people whining because the youth centre in Wellhouse is shut could persuade the parents to come in and run the place in the evenings and wekends, then presumably the stabbing problem would be at an end. Won't happen, though. The parents would miss getting drunk or stoned too much.
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway?
Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles?
Of course they don't. So why aren't
they stabbing and killing folk? I bet it's because the parents know how to handle them, and know to keep them away from the wee thugs who get all this money. Most of the stuff probably gets broken or stolen anyway.
If the people whining because the youth centre in Wellhouse is shut could persuade the parents to come in and run the place in the evenings and wekends, then presumably the stabbing problem would be at an end. Won't happen, though. The parents would miss getting drunk or stoned too much.
Posted by: jrb, Glasgow on 1:08pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Renegade[/bold] wrote:
[bold]jrb:[/bold] [quote]everything else has been tried, and has had no effect[/quote] Not quite. Youth facilities should be open [italic]all night[/italic], not just early evening. These facilities tend to shut around 9-10pm and the kids are left on the streets. Some of these gangbangers will doubtlessly be reluctant to go home because of violence, abuse or neglect in the home, which also needs to be addressed, where relevant.[/quote] Yes.. opening these youth facilities could be given a chance, but what about staffing,neighbours,
and what time would they close?Most of these offenders still attend school so if they are in a club or whatever till all hours, will it have any effect on their education...But none the less an interesting idea...
Renegade wrote:
jrb: everything else has been tried, and has had no effect
Not quite. Youth facilities should be open all night, not just early evening. These facilities tend to shut around 9-10pm and the kids are left on the streets. Some of these gangbangers will doubtlessly be reluctant to go home because of violence, abuse or neglect in the home, which also needs to be addressed, where relevant.
Yes.. opening these youth facilities could be given a chance, but what about staffing,neighbours,
and what time would they close?Most of these offenders still attend school so if they are in a club or whatever till all hours, will it have any effect on their education...But none the less an interesting idea...
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 1:24pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Good article. But like i have said previously this culture has been in Glasgow since the 1930's with the razor gangs.Close on to 77 years. So i dont see how throwing money at a cultural issue is going to change it. Between the politicans, the police and the media, they dont have any solutions. Long after Chief Constable house has gone the violence and knife culture will still be here. And no amount of hotels, tourism or social engineering is going to change that. Glasgow is feral.The beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.
Good article. But like i have said previously this culture has been in Glasgow since the 1930's with the razor gangs.Close on to 77 years. So i dont see how throwing money at a cultural issue is going to change it. Between the politicans, the police and the media, they dont have any solutions. Long after Chief Constable house has gone the violence and knife culture will still be here. And no amount of hotels, tourism or social engineering is going to change that. Glasgow is feral.The beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.
Posted by: Ronnie Cee, Leeds on 1:25pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?
Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof.
Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight.
How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element!
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?
Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof.
Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight.
How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element!
Posted by: Biffo the bear, beano town on 1:42pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Ronnie Cee[/bold] wrote:
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?
Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof.
Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight.
How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element![/quote] Well said that man..
If you leave your house armed with a knife then there is a good chance that you will use it..
We need more police on the streets & for the stop & search law to be city-wide, if you arent carrying an offensive weapon then what is your problem?..
Get caught with a knife you go straight to jail & if you use a knife then it should be ten years hard labour & NO HUMAN RIGHTS because by committing this crime you forfeit any rights as a human..
Ronnie Cee wrote:
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?
Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof.
Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight.
How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element!
Well said that man..
If you leave your house armed with a knife then there is a good chance that you will use it..
We need more police on the streets & for the stop & search law to be city-wide, if you arent carrying an offensive weapon then what is your problem?..
Get caught with a knife you go straight to jail & if you use a knife then it should be ten years hard labour & NO HUMAN RIGHTS because by committing this crime you forfeit any rights as a human..
Posted by: Biffo the bear, beano town on 1:51pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Ronnie Cee[/bold] wrote:
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?
Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof.
Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight.
How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element![/quote] Well said that man..
If you leave your house armed with a knife then there is a good chance that you will use it..
We need more police on the streets & for the stop & search law to be city-wide, if you arent carrying an offensive weapon then what is your problem?..
Get caught with a knife you go straight to jail & if you use a knife then it should be ten years hard labour & NO HUMAN RIGHTS because by committing this crime you forfeit any rights as a human..
Ronnie Cee wrote:
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?
Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof.
Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight.
How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element!
Well said that man..
If you leave your house armed with a knife then there is a good chance that you will use it..
We need more police on the streets & for the stop & search law to be city-wide, if you arent carrying an offensive weapon then what is your problem?..
Get caught with a knife you go straight to jail & if you use a knife then it should be ten years hard labour & NO HUMAN RIGHTS because by committing this crime you forfeit any rights as a human..
Posted by: jrb, Glasgow on 1:52pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Ronnie Cee[/bold] wrote:
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again? Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried? Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof. Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight. How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element![/quote] Totally agree with your opinion as is already stated,lets get tough, it's the only way I can see that these who carry knifes, are taken off the streets,And lets find out from these liberal minded politicians why they are not responding to the voices of the vast majority of people in Scotland who back heavier ,longer sentences for knife crime offenders
Ronnie Cee wrote:
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again? Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried? Answer...easy. Get rid of the do-gooders who preached against stopping people on 'sus' (being suspected of carrying a weapon). Since Police were stopped from searching known hoods in London, no less than thirty one youngsters have been stabbed to death. Similarly in cities around Britain, stabbing offence statistics have gone through the roof. Give the Police back the facility to stop and search. They'll soon get the knives off the streets. Lord Carmont advocated five year sentences just for carrying a knife (in the 1950's), that stopped the offence almost overnight. How those do-gooders sleep at night is beyond me. Let the Police Force operate effectively and remember 'We all have civil rights', not only the criminal element!
Totally agree with your opinion as is already stated,lets get tough, it's the only way I can see that these who carry knifes, are taken off the streets,And lets find out from these liberal minded politicians why they are not responding to the voices of the vast majority of people in Scotland who back heavier ,longer sentences for knife crime offenders
Posted by: West Ender, Glasgow on 1:54pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]jrb[/bold] wrote:
Year on year we see the same statistics trotted out,and the same old spiel about inicitives,campaigns , inclusion. what we need and since Glasgow, is the stab capital of Europe, is to set an example by handing out draconian prison sentences to those carrying out knife crime,evrthing else has been tried, and has had no effect,community service,restriction orders asbos, holidays,computers, nothing worked so let the "Scottish parliament" show the people of Scotland that they can,will, and do listen to their concerns...[/quote] I completely agree with you BUT the "do-gooders, rehabilitators and criminal defence lawyers" are the ones to be convinced.
I also think it's quite clear from the many postings herein on various similar topics that the public at large also agrees with you.
It's ironic that the "do-gooders, rehabilitators and crinimal defence lawyers" are the ones rapidly becoming anti-social!
jrb wrote:
Year on year we see the same statistics trotted out,and the same old spiel about inicitives,campaigns , inclusion. what we need and since Glasgow, is the stab capital of Europe, is to set an example by handing out draconian prison sentences to those carrying out knife crime,evrthing else has been tried, and has had no effect,community service,restriction orders asbos, holidays,computers, nothing worked so let the "Scottish parliament" show the people of Scotland that they can,will, and do listen to their concerns...
I completely agree with you BUT the "do-gooders, rehabilitators and criminal defence lawyers" are the ones to be convinced.
I also think it's quite clear from the many postings herein on various similar topics that the public at large also agrees with you.
It's ironic that the "do-gooders, rehabilitators and crinimal defence lawyers" are the ones rapidly becoming anti-social!
Posted by: Old school, Ayrshire on 2:16pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Ronnie Cee,Biffo jrb & West Ender.
You are all correct, Lord Carmont in the fifties did not hesitate.he handed out long jail time and he destroyed the razor gangs. Get rid of the parasitic social do-gooders and the equally parasitic 'Free' legal defenders. Caught in public with a knive or similar weapon 5 years mandatory, with perhaps fewer prison luxuries. The laws and the punishments are there but there seems a reluctance to administer them severely enough on the part of the justiciary. Community service orders etc. are a joke and will never deter.
Ronnie Cee,Biffo jrb & West Ender.
You are all correct, Lord Carmont in the fifties did not hesitate.he handed out long jail time and he destroyed the razor gangs. Get rid of the parasitic social do-gooders and the equally parasitic 'Free' legal defenders. Caught in public with a knive or similar weapon 5 years mandatory, with perhaps fewer prison luxuries. The laws and the punishments are there but there seems a reluctance to administer them severely enough on the part of the justiciary. Community service orders etc. are a joke and will never deter.
Posted by: pete, Bearsden on 3:44pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Birch the little ba*tards and f*ck the do-gooders.
Birch the little ba*tards and f*ck the do-gooders.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 4:00pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Some of you here dont get it: It wont matter a jot if you gave knife carriers 10 years or 20 years. There are another 10 to take ther place. Glasgow has been a feral/tribal city for a good 40 years. And the law enforcement dont have any strategy for a dulture or a mentality. This best they can do is containment of this to the schemes and estates. We have CCTV. We have the most efficient police service in the countrey and it doesnt make a dent or mark on the violence or murders. The prisons are already full has it is so giving 20 year sentences are not viable.
Some of you here dont get it: It wont matter a jot if you gave knife carriers 10 years or 20 years. There are another 10 to take ther place. Glasgow has been a feral/tribal city for a good 40 years. And the law enforcement dont have any strategy for a dulture or a mentality. This best they can do is containment of this to the schemes and estates. We have CCTV. We have the most efficient police service in the countrey and it doesnt make a dent or mark on the violence or murders. The prisons are already full has it is so giving 20 year sentences are not viable.
Posted by: GAW, Glasgow UK on 4:10pm Thu 17 Jan 08
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway?
Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles?
Of course they don't. So why aren't they stabbing and killing folk?
--------------------
-----
Simple - because the working class conduct themselves like savages, whereas the middle class do not. See?
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway?
Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles?
Of course they don't. So why aren't they stabbing and killing folk?
--------------------
-----
Simple - because the working class conduct themselves like savages, whereas the middle class do not. See?
Posted by: Ronnie Cee, Leeds on 4:14pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Meep,
It's you that doesn't get it. People carry knives mainly(so we're told) for protection; the objective being to 'fight back' if attacked by the idiots you write about. If those knives are taken away then they cannot be used, either for assault or defence...Geddit? Ergo, use stop and search until it is pointless for anyone to carry knives.
Incidentally, where are your statistics coming from? Glasgow a feral/tribal city? hilarious in the extreme.
This 'efficient' Police Force you mention cannot even stop a suspect without obvious reason. Talk about working with your hands tied behind your back!
Full prisons actually support the fact that the Police 'are'doing their job.
Meep,
It's you that doesn't get it. People carry knives mainly(so we're told) for protection; the objective being to 'fight back' if attacked by the idiots you write about. If those knives are taken away then they cannot be used, either for assault or defence...Geddit? Ergo, use stop and search until it is pointless for anyone to carry knives.
Incidentally, where are your statistics coming from? Glasgow a feral/tribal city? hilarious in the extreme.
This 'efficient' Police Force you mention cannot even stop a suspect without obvious reason. Talk about working with your hands tied behind your back!
Full prisons actually support the fact that the Police 'are'doing their job.
Posted by: Mezzle, Glasgow on 4:15pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Why is 'We've got nothing to do' an excuse to go around stabbing folk? GAW sums it up for me.
The people doing these stabbings are from generations of scum, it's inbred. Only way to solve it is a mass neutering of the area because things arent going to change.
Why is 'We've got nothing to do' an excuse to go around stabbing folk? GAW sums it up for me.
The people doing these stabbings are from generations of scum, it's inbred. Only way to solve it is a mass neutering of the area because things arent going to change.
Posted by: McGinty, The North on 4:44pm Thu 17 Jan 08
'Glasgow is feral.The beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.'
Don't necessarily agree. Areas such as Knightswood have come up and parts of Govan and Maryhill are improving similarly with inward investment and overspill from the West End, and prices have increased accordingly. There will no doubt be winners and losers but to cut the whole town with the same cloth seems unduly negative. It works both ways as well; some areas in Scotland which were desirable in the 40's and 50's have gone downhill. What is saddest is to see the youngsters who are trying to break out who don't make it.
'Glasgow is feral.The beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.'
Don't necessarily agree. Areas such as Knightswood have come up and parts of Govan and Maryhill are improving similarly with inward investment and overspill from the West End, and prices have increased accordingly. There will no doubt be winners and losers but to cut the whole town with the same cloth seems unduly negative. It works both ways as well; some areas in Scotland which were desirable in the 40's and 50's have gone downhill. What is saddest is to see the youngsters who are trying to break out who don't make it.
Posted by: The Missing City, Glasgow on 4:57pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Mezzle[/bold] wrote:
Why is 'We've got nothing to do' an excuse to go around stabbing folk? GAW sums it up for me. The people doing these stabbings are from generations of scum, it's inbred. Only way to solve it is a mass neutering of the area because things arent going to change.[/quote] Hmmm people back in the good old days were scume were they?
Hmmmmmmm
Back in the day, like 77 years ago there was only 4 recorded murders in the space of 10 years - so if they are scum as well as their successive spawn, then what do you call the generation of today?
Do you have the facts behind these murders which took place in the 1930's?
Were they actually attributed to the so-called gang violence which was just scuffles between young workers in different parts of the old town.
Back in the 60's there was a certain disregard by the government for the public, in turn the public have realised that the system that they live under tramples on them so don't give a fcuk cos they were born into sh1t like damp housing schemes and having no work after leaving school, there was a succession of these probblems mounting up and noboduy done anything about it - especially Thatcher - she just trodded on people even more which has resulted in today's kiddie crime!
Nobody gives a stuff, the above comments from some is ample proof of the attitude that the less well off will continue to fight against.
You sh1t on somebody, guaranteed they'll come back and sh1t on YOU!
Human nature I suppose!
Mezzle wrote:
Why is 'We've got nothing to do' an excuse to go around stabbing folk? GAW sums it up for me. The people doing these stabbings are from generations of scum, it's inbred. Only way to solve it is a mass neutering of the area because things arent going to change.
Hmmm people back in the good old days were scume were they?
Hmmmmmmm
Back in the day, like 77 years ago there was only 4 recorded murders in the space of 10 years - so if they are scum as well as their successive spawn, then what do you call the generation of today?
Do you have the facts behind these murders which took place in the 1930's?
Were they actually attributed to the so-called gang violence which was just scuffles between young workers in different parts of the old town.
Back in the 60's there was a certain disregard by the government for the public, in turn the public have realised that the system that they live under tramples on them so don't give a fcuk cos they were born into sh1t like damp housing schemes and having no work after leaving school, there was a succession of these probblems mounting up and noboduy done anything about it - especially Thatcher - she just trodded on people even more which has resulted in today's kiddie crime!
Nobody gives a stuff, the above comments from some is ample proof of the attitude that the less well off will continue to fight against.
You sh1t on somebody, guaranteed they'll come back and sh1t on YOU!
Human nature I suppose!
Posted by: West Ender, Glasgow on 5:01pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]GAW[/bold] wrote:
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway? Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles? Of course they don't. So why aren't they stabbing and killing folk? -------------------- ----- Simple - because the working class conduct themselves like savages, whereas the middle class do not. See?[/quote] GAW,
I need some help here to better understand your POV. Define for me, as you describe them:
Working Class:
Middle Class:
GAW wrote:
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway? Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles? Of course they don't. So why aren't they stabbing and killing folk? -------------------- ----- Simple - because the working class conduct themselves like savages, whereas the middle class do not. See?
GAW,
I need some help here to better understand your POV. Define for me, as you describe them:
Working Class:
Middle Class:
Posted by: jrb, Glasgow on 5:27pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]GAW[/bold] wrote:
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway? Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles? Of course they don't. So why aren't they stabbing and killing folk? -------------------- ----- Simple - because the working class conduct themselves like savages, whereas the middle class do not. See?[/quote] So what crimes are the"middle classes "responsible for then? the whole definition of the old class system has changed fresco in the last 20 years,People's aspirations have changed and a class system as you describe it would only hinder them..properly their is some element of snobbery that you can encounter, but with such things as the internet,high tech, jobs more opportunity through universities,the "class system" as we knew it does not exist.
GAW wrote:
I see the Community Planning Partnership has gven a quarter of a million pounds to Wellhouse for toys for their children. And crime is still high. And what has distracting children from committing knife crime have to do with "regeneration" anyway? Do kids in Kelvindale and Hyndland and Broomhill and Jordanhill - where the senior staff of the Community planning Partnership mostly live - get any such money? Do they get publicly funded "activities?" Do they get taxpayer-funded pool tables and computers and consoles? Of course they don't. So why aren't they stabbing and killing folk? -------------------- ----- Simple - because the working class conduct themselves like savages, whereas the middle class do not. See?
So what crimes are the"middle classes "responsible for then? the whole definition of the old class system has changed fresco in the last 20 years,People's aspirations have changed and a class system as you describe it would only hinder them..properly their is some element of snobbery that you can encounter, but with such things as the internet,high tech, jobs more opportunity through universities,the "class system" as we knew it does not exist.
Posted by: roor06, glasgow on 6:46pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Margaret thatcher has got a lot to answer for ...
This generation of teens are the offspring from parents who were left with nothing when she was in power ...
Margaret thatcher has got a lot to answer for ...
This generation of teens are the offspring from parents who were left with nothing when she was in power ...
Posted by: trench, possilpark on 6:58pm Thu 17 Jan 08
i cannot believe that the parents of the troublesome offsprings are so afraid of them that most parents are on medication for bad nerves, what they need to realize if you do not have a handle on the situation by the time the children are 6 you have lost the plot,which turns into total disrespect,by the time the kids are teenagers you have do do your own policing...dont leave it up to the neighbours, check everything that comes into your home, INCLUDING CELL PHONES and find out who their freinds are ,report to police suspicious goings on, after all you could lose your home or car if the family are into the 'favourite'pass time nobody will believe that you "didny know whit wis goin on."
i cannot believe that the parents of the troublesome offsprings are so afraid of them that most parents are on medication for bad nerves, what they need to realize if you do not have a handle on the situation by the time the children are 6 you have lost the plot,which turns into total disrespect,by the time the kids are teenagers you have do do your own policing...dont leave it up to the neighbours, check everything that comes into your home, INCLUDING CELL PHONES and find out who their freinds are ,report to police suspicious goings on, after all you could lose your home or car if the family are into the 'favourite'pass time nobody will believe that you "didny know whit wis goin on."
Posted by: hightower, glasgow on 7:16pm Thu 17 Jan 08
stop and search and immediate jail for anyone carrying a weapon of any sort. no excuses. no PC crap
stop and search and immediate jail for anyone carrying a weapon of any sort. no excuses. no PC crap
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 8:17pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Ronnie Cee i dont think you are the best person to comment on what glasgow is or isnt when you lurk down in Leeds. I have lived in Glasgow all my life and i see the city becoming worse not better. So i dont think you are in any position to comment about Glasgow when you seem to have evacuated to Leeds. And from my experience Glasgow is feral, and no amount of ryhme , reason or strategies will undo almost 70 years with of gang, tribal, and sectarian violence. All these Daily Mail readers are lving in a bubble if they think that filling prisons up wil make any difference. There has to be a change in the culture on the ground. And no one person has found a way to do that in the last 70 years. The Beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.
Ronnie Cee i dont think you are the best person to comment on what glasgow is or isnt when you lurk down in Leeds. I have lived in Glasgow all my life and i see the city becoming worse not better. So i dont think you are in any position to comment about Glasgow when you seem to have evacuated to Leeds. And from my experience Glasgow is feral, and no amount of ryhme , reason or strategies will undo almost 70 years with of gang, tribal, and sectarian violence. All these Daily Mail readers are lving in a bubble if they think that filling prisons up wil make any difference. There has to be a change in the culture on the ground. And no one person has found a way to do that in the last 70 years. The Beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.
Posted by: West Ender, Glasgow on 8:39pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Meep[/bold] wrote:
Ronnie Cee i dont think you are the best person to comment on what glasgow is or isnt when you lurk down in Leeds. I have lived in Glasgow all my life and i see the city becoming worse not better. So i dont think you are in any position to comment about Glasgow when you seem to have evacuated to Leeds. And from my experience Glasgow is feral, and no amount of ryhme , reason or strategies will undo almost 70 years with of gang, tribal, and sectarian violence. All these Daily Mail readers are lving in a bubble if they think that filling prisons up wil make any difference. There has to be a change in the culture on the ground. And no one person has found a way to do that in the last 70 years. The Beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.[/quote] Meep,
From my experience usually when someone says you can't do something it's usually correct for THEM.
I refute your dismissal "The Beast that is Glasgow can't be tamed" as defeatist.
This city has and continues to grow in all aspects of it existance. Obviously some facets, faster and better than others, but it is growing and we as citizens are better for the growth. If we accept your position the only outcome is anarchy.
Meep wrote:
Ronnie Cee i dont think you are the best person to comment on what glasgow is or isnt when you lurk down in Leeds. I have lived in Glasgow all my life and i see the city becoming worse not better. So i dont think you are in any position to comment about Glasgow when you seem to have evacuated to Leeds. And from my experience Glasgow is feral, and no amount of ryhme , reason or strategies will undo almost 70 years with of gang, tribal, and sectarian violence. All these Daily Mail readers are lving in a bubble if they think that filling prisons up wil make any difference. There has to be a change in the culture on the ground. And no one person has found a way to do that in the last 70 years. The Beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.
Meep,
From my experience usually when someone says you can't do something it's usually correct for THEM.
I refute your dismissal "The Beast that is Glasgow can't be tamed" as defeatist.
This city has and continues to grow in all aspects of it existance. Obviously some facets, faster and better than others, but it is growing and we as citizens are better for the growth. If we accept your position the only outcome is anarchy.
Posted by: weediv, Canada on 9:21pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Oh well if they can get these youths to stop smoking they will be a lot healthier they will be able to fight more and run around all day and night open up boxing clubs and get them on to beating up one and other only supervise it, just in case they have a knife hidden up there boxing shorts
Oh well if they can get these youths to stop smoking they will be a lot healthier they will be able to fight more and run around all day and night open up boxing clubs and get them on to beating up one and other only supervise it, just in case they have a knife hidden up there boxing shorts
Posted by: Biffo the bear, beano town on 9:24pm Thu 17 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Meep[/bold] wrote:
Ronnie Cee i dont think you are the best person to comment on what glasgow is or isnt when you lurk down in Leeds. I have lived in Glasgow all my life and i see the city becoming worse not better. So i dont think you are in any position to comment about Glasgow when you seem to have evacuated to Leeds. And from my experience Glasgow is feral, and no amount of ryhme , reason or strategies will undo almost 70 years with of gang, tribal, and sectarian violence. All these Daily Mail readers are lving in a bubble if they think that filling prisons up wil make any difference. There has to be a change in the culture on the ground. And no one person has found a way to do that in the last 70 years. The Beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.[/quote] Meep mate, just because somebody does not reside in the city anymore does not mean that they arent in touch with whats happening here..
I no longer live in Glasgow but i still comment, why? because i love the city, i stay in touch with whats happening there..
Glasgow is not a beast with hordes of feral gang-bangers running amok although the media would have the world believe differently.
Yeah it has its fair share of knife carrying neds but what city doesnt (& i am not condoning this mentality).
We all know that the prison as it exists does not work & that is why we as humans debate & hope for better for our dear green place, not anarchy & bending over to the minority..
Have faith in the people not the council...
Meep wrote:
Ronnie Cee i dont think you are the best person to comment on what glasgow is or isnt when you lurk down in Leeds. I have lived in Glasgow all my life and i see the city becoming worse not better. So i dont think you are in any position to comment about Glasgow when you seem to have evacuated to Leeds. And from my experience Glasgow is feral, and no amount of ryhme , reason or strategies will undo almost 70 years with of gang, tribal, and sectarian violence. All these Daily Mail readers are lving in a bubble if they think that filling prisons up wil make any difference. There has to be a change in the culture on the ground. And no one person has found a way to do that in the last 70 years. The Beast that is Glasgow cant be tamed.
Meep mate, just because somebody does not reside in the city anymore does not mean that they arent in touch with whats happening here..
I no longer live in Glasgow but i still comment, why? because i love the city, i stay in touch with whats happening there..
Glasgow is not a beast with hordes of feral gang-bangers running amok although the media would have the world believe differently.
Yeah it has its fair share of knife carrying neds but what city doesnt (& i am not condoning this mentality).
We all know that the prison as it exists does not work & that is why we as humans debate & hope for better for our dear green place, not anarchy & bending over to the minority..
Have faith in the people not the council...
Posted by: ray, glasgow on 9:34pm Thu 17 Jan 08
Done a wee bit of digging there and guess what!!! the youth club opens mid day till 6.30 Mon to Fri and closes at the weekend and public holidays.Would it not be easier to re jig the opening times? £250,000 wasted, totally wasted.
Done a wee bit of digging there and guess what!!! the youth club opens mid day till 6.30 Mon to Fri and closes at the weekend and public holidays.Would it not be easier to re jig the opening times? £250,000 wasted, totally wasted.
Posted by: tam-m, southside on 10:02pm Thu 17 Jan 08
most posters seem to agree that harsher deterents are needed so why is it that what the people want/need is ignored ....ie they are now talking about prisoners being allowed to have intercourse with their partners while inside....this on top of free meals/accomodation/h
eating/pool tables/sky tv/gyms/not to mention compensation if everything is not to their liking..the only thing prisoners lose is their freedom which most people living in schemes lose after 6 at night anyway.this is why prison is not a deterent.
most posters seem to agree that harsher deterents are needed so why is it that what the people want/need is ignored ....ie they are now talking about prisoners being allowed to have intercourse with their partners while inside....this on top of free meals/accomodation/h
eating/pool tables/sky tv/gyms/not to mention compensation if everything is not to their liking..the only thing prisoners lose is their freedom which most people living in schemes lose after 6 at night anyway.this is why prison is not a deterent.
Posted by: tam-m, southside on 1:10am Fri 18 Jan 08
ps --A TEENAGER who launched a frenzied knife attack on his 62-year-old neighbour after complaints about noise was jailed for almost five years yesterday.
James Rooney, 16, of Carfin in Lanarkshire, admitted the assault at the High Court in Glasgow.---out in 3 years when he is 19.
ps --A TEENAGER who launched a frenzied knife attack on his 62-year-old neighbour after complaints about noise was jailed for almost five years yesterday.
James Rooney, 16, of Carfin in Lanarkshire, admitted the assault at the High Court in Glasgow.---out in 3 years when he is 19.
Posted by: danudt banana, glasgow on 3:05am Fri 18 Jan 08
whats the good thing of glasgow if you have all this troublemakers. is it worth working there? i dont think so! all those campaign is worthless if nothing will change in the mindset of the scottish people regarding this problem of gangs booze and drugs. God save you all.
whats the good thing of glasgow if you have all this troublemakers. is it worth working there? i dont think so! all those campaign is worthless if nothing will change in the mindset of the scottish people regarding this problem of gangs booze and drugs. God save you all.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 4:07am Fri 18 Jan 08
Since when did god ever do anything but exacerbate the situation in glasgow. At christmas time there were councils afraid to put up customary decorations for fear of being sued, muslims feeling discriminated against, and other reasons. Every time there is a rangers celtic match people who describe themselves as good christians want to kill each other for god only knows what. Danudt you are clearly a banana you should learn to express yourself in english. All those campaign does not make any sense neither does asking for god the thing with the worst record of creating problems in glasgow to sort it out. You might as well ask for booze the only thing with a slightly worse reputation in glasgow hospitals to sort it out. Lets add happiness to beer or go the whole hog and make a holy pint.
Since when did god ever do anything but exacerbate the situation in glasgow. At christmas time there were councils afraid to put up customary decorations for fear of being sued, muslims feeling discriminated against, and other reasons. Every time there is a rangers celtic match people who describe themselves as good christians want to kill each other for god only knows what. Danudt you are clearly a banana you should learn to express yourself in english. All those campaign does not make any sense neither does asking for god the thing with the worst record of creating problems in glasgow to sort it out. You might as well ask for booze the only thing with a slightly worse reputation in glasgow hospitals to sort it out. Lets add happiness to beer or go the whole hog and make a holy pint.
Posted by: angiebobs, do-gooder on 9:02am Fri 18 Jan 08
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
[quote]Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?[/quote]
Well, yes, that's pretty obvious but the question is HOW best to stop knives being carried.. and I think you'll find that the solutions proposed by the'lock em up'brigade are a complete waste of time and money. There are societal reasons why less young people carry knives in Bearsden, Newton Mearns etc. They are more likely to carry the latest Iphone, laptop, MP3 and be on their way to skiing/tennis lessons ect.
Inequality, poverty and disadvanatage shape the lives of thousands of young people- and all the evidence shows that we need to have more facilities, like the Wellhouse Inner Zone, and activities.
In addition low pay,poor housing,poor transport and labelling of young people from poorer areas are issues.
So if we are quite happy to see knife crime on our street then by all means ignore these isssues and blame the'culture' and the parents - but it won't reduce knife crime but, hey ,maybe it'll make the better-off feel better.
I live in one of the poorest areas of Glasgow and have brought my son up here - we're the same as you - we want a good future for our children.
Oh dear...not the same old arguments again?
Fifty years ago the same old chestnuts about lack of parental control and unavailabilty of community centres being the cause of knife crimes were trotted out. FOR GAWD'S SAKE...knife crime can only be carried out if KNIVES ARE CARRIED so, the real issue is...how to stop knives being carried?
Well, yes, that's pretty obvious but the question is HOW best to stop knives being carried.. and I think you'll find that the solutions proposed by the'lock em up'brigade are a complete waste of time and money. There are societal reasons why less young people carry knives in Bearsden, Newton Mearns etc. They are more likely to carry the latest Iphone, laptop, MP3 and be on their way to skiing/tennis lessons ect.
Inequality, poverty and disadvanatage shape the lives of thousands of young people- and all the evidence shows that we need to have more facilities, like the Wellhouse Inner Zone, and activities.
In addition low pay,poor housing,poor transport and labelling of young people from poorer areas are issues.
So if we are quite happy to see knife crime on our street then by all means ignore these isssues and blame the'culture' and the parents - but it won't reduce knife crime but, hey ,maybe it'll make the better-off feel better.
I live in one of the poorest areas of Glasgow and have brought my son up here - we're the same as you - we want a good future for our children.
Posted by: justme, whocares on 3:26pm Fri 18 Jan 08
maybe im old fashioned but is it not the parents to blame i was brought up and i mean brought up along from the city center my parents wernt strict but they did tell u what was right or wrong, but i dont think pouring money into these areas the answer be as well pouring it down a bottomless pit all ive heard for yrs off people the kids have nothing to do what aload of crap excuses excuses
maybe im old fashioned but is it not the parents to blame i was brought up and i mean brought up along from the city center my parents wernt strict but they did tell u what was right or wrong, but i dont think pouring money into these areas the answer be as well pouring it down a bottomless pit all ive heard for yrs off people the kids have nothing to do what aload of crap excuses excuses
Posted by: trench, possilpark on 3:50pm Sat 19 Jan 08
people who were brought up in glasgow years ago, be it in the rich or poor areas, you will find that the ones who were in different activities like youth clubs, biking, hiking, boy scouts, girl guides, even all sorts of athletic sports, cadets, or band practice were the ones who ended up in worth while jobs and had a sense of pride in their every day life, the children nowadays have everything going for them and their rooms have every new up to date gadget and electronics, yet even then they "are bored" my advise is GET A LIFE show the parents you are not a total waste of space.
people who were brought up in glasgow years ago, be it in the rich or poor areas, you will find that the ones who were in different activities like youth clubs, biking, hiking, boy scouts, girl guides, even all sorts of athletic sports, cadets, or band practice were the ones who ended up in worth while jobs and had a sense of pride in their every day life, the children nowadays have everything going for them and their rooms have every new up to date gadget and electronics, yet even then they "are bored" my advise is GET A LIFE show the parents you are not a total waste of space.
Posted by: Renegade on 8:10am Thu 24 Jan 08
[bold]jrb:[/bold]
[quote]Most of these offenders still attend school so if they are in a club or whatever till all hours, will it have any effect on their education[/quote]
Most of them don't do well in school regardless, ergo having facilities open all night would make little if any difference in their educational attainment.
jrb:
Most of these offenders still attend school so if they are in a club or whatever till all hours, will it have any effect on their education
Most of them don't do well in school regardless, ergo having facilities open all night would make little if any difference in their educational attainment.
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