Posted by: the man, moral high ground on 11:21am Tue 4 Mar 08
Fantastic . Now we can have more footage to show on television of people being assaulted , killed , actsof vandalism etc. as a result of these cameras . Call me old fashioned but when a crime is taking place we should have a police response not a record of the event for television . CCTV is an assaet for the police and should not replace them . Incidentally does anyone know if the Transport Police are still mass searching the public for bombs or did our Justice Minister sort out their senior officer who thought it a good idea to search old grannies on their way to the bingo for suicide belts . Perhaps if that silly excercise has stoped there will be police offiers aviable to answer calls again . I am afraid their senor officer is not John Smeaton .
Fantastic . Now we can have more footage to show on television of people being assaulted , killed , actsof vandalism etc. as a result of these cameras . Call me old fashioned but when a crime is taking place we should have a police response not a record of the event for television . CCTV is an assaet for the police and should not replace them . Incidentally does anyone know if the Transport Police are still mass searching the public for bombs or did our Justice Minister sort out their senior officer who thought it a good idea to search old grannies on their way to the bingo for suicide belts . Perhaps if that silly excercise has stoped there will be police offiers aviable to answer calls again . I am afraid their senor officer is not John Smeaton .
Posted by: Andrew Stephen on 1:00pm Tue 4 Mar 08
116 cameras for just 3 stations!
116 cameras for just 3 stations!
Posted by: daz, glasgow on 1:33pm Tue 4 Mar 08
ah....when i read the headline i thought it may refer to unmanned stations...
but no - if there are police already patrolling these stations, what do they need cctv for?
is it because the coppers always stand in the same spot they'll be replaced with more cost effective cardboard cut-outs???
ah....when i read the headline i thought it may refer to unmanned stations...
but no - if there are police already patrolling these stations, what do they need cctv for?
is it because the coppers always stand in the same spot they'll be replaced with more cost effective cardboard cut-outs???
Posted by: Renegade, Cyberspace on 1:38pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Good old big brother Britain - with the most CCTV per square mile in the world.
I dunno about you, but I'm rather weary of all this terrorist hype, which is just being whipped up to keep the population in a state of fear. 8-|
Good old big brother Britain - with the most CCTV per square mile in the world.
I dunno about you, but I'm rather weary of all this terrorist hype, which is just being whipped up to keep the population in a state of fear. 8-|
Posted by: Mr T, Glasgow on 2:13pm Tue 4 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Renegade[/bold] wrote:
Good old big brother Britain - with the most CCTV per square mile in the world. I dunno about you, but I'm rather weary of all this terrorist hype, which is just being whipped up to keep the population in a state of fear. 8-|[/quote] totally agree, this £350,000 can get around 16 or so new police men and women for a year so why dont they do that and managem them full time rather than get all these camera's.
First ScotRail said the work would be completed by next month, when the train operator will manage a total of 3950 cameras and 441 CCTV Help Points at 241 stations across Scotland
Now 3950 are going to be managed by the train operator or how many exactly will be monitoring these all on one go... even if 10 were managing 10 of them thats still not enough!
its simply not feesible and economically its a total farse to really all they are doing is replacing the police for cctv so once someone it brutally killed or assaulted then they have some evidence to take to them provided they are allowed to take it.
Renegade wrote:
Good old big brother Britain - with the most CCTV per square mile in the world. I dunno about you, but I'm rather weary of all this terrorist hype, which is just being whipped up to keep the population in a state of fear. 8-|
totally agree, this £350,000 can get around 16 or so new police men and women for a year so why dont they do that and managem them full time rather than get all these camera's.
First ScotRail said the work would be completed by next month, when the train operator will manage a total of 3950 cameras and 441 CCTV Help Points at 241 stations across Scotland
Now 3950 are going to be managed by the train operator or how many exactly will be monitoring these all on one go... even if 10 were managing 10 of them thats still not enough!
its simply not feesible and economically its a total farse to really all they are doing is replacing the police for cctv so once someone it brutally killed or assaulted then they have some evidence to take to them provided they are allowed to take it.
Posted by: hightower, glasgow on 3:02pm Tue 4 Mar 08
is there no british transport police anymore. surely they should eb patrolling these places 24 hours a day if problems exist. but then the cooncil would tell us that costs £53million each year or something silly like that
is there no british transport police anymore. surely they should eb patrolling these places 24 hours a day if problems exist. but then the cooncil would tell us that costs £53million each year or something silly like that
Posted by: roor06, glasgow on 3:34pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Fact. Cameras are not a deterrent.
This money would have been better spent on employing private security officers.
Fact. Cameras are not a deterrent.
This money would have been better spent on employing private security officers.
Posted by: absent_not_vacant, London on 3:54pm Tue 4 Mar 08
CCTV cameras might not be able apprehend a suspect, but at least they don't spend all their time filling in forms.
CCTV cameras might not be able apprehend a suspect, but at least they don't spend all their time filling in forms.
Posted by: Ronnie Cee, Glasgow on 4:01pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Oh dear, the loonies are out in force again tonight.
Those same eejits who complain that there is no security at public places such as stations and airports and cry "where are the cameras?" Now complain when they are being installed!
For the record, cameras capture an event that (no matter how many police are present) officers cannot see. How can police or security men be everywhere?
At least the criminal element now know that they are being watched and will no doubt behave accordingly. Crime WILL drop as a consequence. No matter what you moaners say!
What should we do, employ a great many police to walk around railwy stations all day? No,because you moaners would say they should be out catching criminals!
Get a life and accept any security measures that are put in place.
Oh dear, the loonies are out in force again tonight.
Those same eejits who complain that there is no security at public places such as stations and airports and cry "where are the cameras?" Now complain when they are being installed!
For the record, cameras capture an event that (no matter how many police are present) officers cannot see. How can police or security men be everywhere?
At least the criminal element now know that they are being watched and will no doubt behave accordingly. Crime WILL drop as a consequence. No matter what you moaners say!
What should we do, employ a great many police to walk around railwy stations all day? No,because you moaners would say they should be out catching criminals!
Get a life and accept any security measures that are put in place.
Posted by: Mr T, Glasgow on 4:18pm Tue 4 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Ronnie Cee[/bold] wrote:
Oh dear, the loonies are out in force again tonight. Those same eejits who complain that there is no security at public places such as stations and airports and cry "where are the cameras?" Now complain when they are being installed! For the record, cameras capture an event that (no matter how many police are present) officers cannot see. How can police or security men be everywhere? At least the criminal element now know that they are being watched and will no doubt behave accordingly. Crime WILL drop as a consequence. No matter what you moaners say! What should we do, employ a great many police to walk around railwy stations all day? No,because you moaners would say they should be out catching criminals! Get a life and accept any security measures that are put in place.[/quote] point taken, i guess it should be in moderation of both not all men and not all camera's but one should use the most of the other and obviously only man can make full use of machine.
good points made but in the end far too many cameras to be viewed at one individual time by usually a small team of people!
Ronnie Cee wrote:
Oh dear, the loonies are out in force again tonight. Those same eejits who complain that there is no security at public places such as stations and airports and cry "where are the cameras?" Now complain when they are being installed! For the record, cameras capture an event that (no matter how many police are present) officers cannot see. How can police or security men be everywhere? At least the criminal element now know that they are being watched and will no doubt behave accordingly. Crime WILL drop as a consequence. No matter what you moaners say! What should we do, employ a great many police to walk around railwy stations all day? No,because you moaners would say they should be out catching criminals! Get a life and accept any security measures that are put in place.
point taken, i guess it should be in moderation of both not all men and not all camera's but one should use the most of the other and obviously only man can make full use of machine.
good points made but in the end far too many cameras to be viewed at one individual time by usually a small team of people!
Posted by: DMac, Glasgow on 4:32pm Tue 4 Mar 08
185 CCTV cameras for three stations seems a bit over the top. Glasgow Queen Street and Motherwell have BT Police based in the actual stations. I would also imagine Inverness to be the same.
Every station between Drumgelloch and Helensburgh (via Singer & Yoker) could have had an extra 5 cameras per station, rather than put them all in the same place
185 CCTV cameras for three stations seems a bit over the top. Glasgow Queen Street and Motherwell have BT Police based in the actual stations. I would also imagine Inverness to be the same.
Every station between Drumgelloch and Helensburgh (via Singer & Yoker) could have had an extra 5 cameras per station, rather than put them all in the same place
Posted by: tam-m, southside on 6:38pm Tue 4 Mar 08
cctv works in the railway stations when was the last time you saw a group of neds drinking in a station covered by cctv.whereas before the cameras most stations were used as drinking dens for large groups .
cctv works in the railway stations when was the last time you saw a group of neds drinking in a station covered by cctv.whereas before the cameras most stations were used as drinking dens for large groups .
Posted by: Andrew Stephen on 6:38pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Maybe they'll catch all the sneaky smokers or those who pick their noses!!
Maybe they'll catch all the sneaky smokers or those who pick their noses!!
Posted by: Johnny Punchclock, Glasgow on 7:42pm Tue 4 Mar 08
Not good enough. The cameras record what happens, but that doesn't stop it. I don't use trains if I can avoid it in the evenings because of threatening behaviour.I was waiting at Anniesland Station going into town one evening, when there was a football match in the city. There weren't that many fans on their way but some were verbally abusing women passengers, others were standing on the seats for waiting passengers, and several were throwing glass bottles across the platform. The ticket collector made sure she was safely locked in her booth. These people got away with disgraceful behaviour. I presume there was a camera - so what?
Not good enough. The cameras record what happens, but that doesn't stop it. I don't use trains if I can avoid it in the evenings because of threatening behaviour.I was waiting at Anniesland Station going into town one evening, when there was a football match in the city. There weren't that many fans on their way but some were verbally abusing women passengers, others were standing on the seats for waiting passengers, and several were throwing glass bottles across the platform. The ticket collector made sure she was safely locked in her booth. These people got away with disgraceful behaviour. I presume there was a camera - so what?
Posted by: brianscottie43, Toronto, Canada on 9:35pm Tue 4 Mar 08
It's interesting, because in North America, supposedly the violence centre of the universe, CCTV is used sparingly as compared to the UK. Many people wish many more were installed but the liberals in our society have so far prevailed. Do the cameras reduce crime or just make capture of criminals easier? The jury is still out, I think.
It's interesting, because in North America, supposedly the violence centre of the universe, CCTV is used sparingly as compared to the UK. Many people wish many more were installed but the liberals in our society have so far prevailed. Do the cameras reduce crime or just make capture of criminals easier? The jury is still out, I think.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 10:44pm Tue 4 Mar 08
* Cynic alert *
Despite what anybody says about the benefits of CCTV, and what ( if any) safety, or peace of mind it gives some travellers - the feeling that we are ALL being watched - even the more law abiding of us can make us feel more insecure!
Personally, I cannot see the benefits of CCTV, as unless those watching the monitors are skilled enough, and are observing them at all times - even they can miss an incident, through simple human errors!
Personally, I'd far rather have more staff - people on the ground who can be of assistance and come to peoples aid, as well as the Police and Security Staff.
Far too much focus is around preventing terrorist attacks, or crime - and not nearly enough money or resources are going into the more positive, practical way of promoting our city to tourists and travellers who wish to use our trains!
Where are the welcomes and friendly faces to those who are lost or wish help or assistance ?
Where are the friendly officers who can give basic advice and support when a crime has been committed to a victim ?
Far to much emphasis is around the notion of terrorism, and reporting suspicious, unattended luggage.
Perhaps in this climate - day & age we are living in that element of security - Public announcements are needed. . . . .
But, to what point should be accept such an infringement on our civil liberties ?
And - just who really serves to benefit from such investments for our railway infrastructures ?
Surely there are far more areas we should be focussing on in conjunction with this - not simply CCTV alone!
* Cynic alert *
Despite what anybody says about the benefits of CCTV, and what ( if any) safety, or peace of mind it gives some travellers - the feeling that we are ALL being watched - even the more law abiding of us can make us feel more insecure!
Personally, I cannot see the benefits of CCTV, as unless those watching the monitors are skilled enough, and are observing them at all times - even they can miss an incident, through simple human errors!
Personally, I'd far rather have more staff - people on the ground who can be of assistance and come to peoples aid, as well as the Police and Security Staff.
Far too much focus is around preventing terrorist attacks, or crime - and not nearly enough money or resources are going into the more positive, practical way of promoting our city to tourists and travellers who wish to use our trains!
Where are the welcomes and friendly faces to those who are lost or wish help or assistance ?
Where are the friendly officers who can give basic advice and support when a crime has been committed to a victim ?
Far to much emphasis is around the notion of terrorism, and reporting suspicious, unattended luggage.
Perhaps in this climate - day & age we are living in that element of security - Public announcements are needed. . . . .
But, to what point should be accept such an infringement on our civil liberties ?
And - just who really serves to benefit from such investments for our railway infrastructures ?
Surely there are far more areas we should be focussing on in conjunction with this - not simply CCTV alone!
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 10:54pm Tue 4 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Ronnie Cee[/bold] wrote:
Oh dear, the loonies are out in force again tonight. Those same eejits who complain that there is no security at public places such as stations and airports and cry "where are the cameras?" Now complain when they are being installed! For the record, cameras capture an event that (no matter how many police are present) officers cannot see. How can police or security men be everywhere? At least the criminal element now know that they are being watched and will no doubt behave accordingly. Crime WILL drop as a consequence. No matter what you moaners say! What should we do, employ a great many police to walk around railwy stations all day? No,because you moaners would say they should be out catching criminals! Get a life and accept any security measures that are put in place.[/quote]
Ronnie,
Its not about loonies here, but those who feel that despite the supposed increase security measures in place, the management numpties, and overall running of such stations need to be improved in conjunction.
More staff and visable presence of police and such like.
And - whats to say that those caught on camera will even be trailed, chased, caught, charged, or even appear in court.
It will again be down to the police to pick and choose who is charged - and who they cannot be bothered to process.
As with so many crimes which go unreported, are missed by the police, or are ignored for whatever reasons - this CCTV project will not be the huge success it is hailed to be without a whole range of other measures in conjunction with it.
It is simply being used as an excuse to cut costs by taking officers away from duties within the station - a cheaper alternative to having officers in the flesh!
Like the police call centres which prevent you getting through to your local station, this measure will only be a success if those monitoring the images are skillful enough to act quickly enough.
With so many botch ups in our Transport Infrastructure management, City Council & Public services, I'm yet to be convinced this will be the answer Glasgow is looking for to cut crime in our railway stations.
Ronnie Cee wrote:
Oh dear, the loonies are out in force again tonight. Those same eejits who complain that there is no security at public places such as stations and airports and cry "where are the cameras?" Now complain when they are being installed! For the record, cameras capture an event that (no matter how many police are present) officers cannot see. How can police or security men be everywhere? At least the criminal element now know that they are being watched and will no doubt behave accordingly. Crime WILL drop as a consequence. No matter what you moaners say! What should we do, employ a great many police to walk around railwy stations all day? No,because you moaners would say they should be out catching criminals! Get a life and accept any security measures that are put in place.
Ronnie,
Its not about loonies here, but those who feel that despite the supposed increase security measures in place, the management numpties, and overall running of such stations need to be improved in conjunction.
More staff and visable presence of police and such like.
And - whats to say that those caught on camera will even be trailed, chased, caught, charged, or even appear in court.
It will again be down to the police to pick and choose who is charged - and who they cannot be bothered to process.
As with so many crimes which go unreported, are missed by the police, or are ignored for whatever reasons - this CCTV project will not be the huge success it is hailed to be without a whole range of other measures in conjunction with it.
It is simply being used as an excuse to cut costs by taking officers away from duties within the station - a cheaper alternative to having officers in the flesh!
Like the police call centres which prevent you getting through to your local station, this measure will only be a success if those monitoring the images are skillful enough to act quickly enough.
With so many botch ups in our Transport Infrastructure management, City Council & Public services, I'm yet to be convinced this will be the answer Glasgow is looking for to cut crime in our railway stations.
Posted by: john mcmaster, mount vernon on 11:32pm Tue 4 Mar 08
so, roor06 and others, CCTV is not a deterrent?
Maybe not in every case but I can remember the high incidence of vandalism to cars at Shettleston station before CCTV was introduced. By the way, CCTV does not just record crimes for posterity, systems such as streetwatch are constantly monitored and can lead to effective, sometimes life-saving, interventions. Not as often as we would like but better than nothing. So stop whining, smartasses
so, roor06 and others, CCTV is not a deterrent?
Maybe not in every case but I can remember the high incidence of vandalism to cars at Shettleston station before CCTV was introduced. By the way, CCTV does not just record crimes for posterity, systems such as streetwatch are constantly monitored and can lead to effective, sometimes life-saving, interventions. Not as often as we would like but better than nothing. So stop whining, smartasses
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 12:13am Wed 5 Mar 08
John,
Much as I'd like to agree with you there is no replacing or substitution for plain old policing at street level.
We are losing our community officers, familiar police officers who patrol our streets on foot, as well as in their "panda cars"
Lets start to see a better partnership between the public and police - not this CCTV crap which will do little or nothing to help the dire relationship which exists between the police and public.
The number of crimes committed and those reported do not match up - FACT!
The lack of respect for police especially in areas of poverty and deprivation is only increasing - FACT!
The fear of repercussions from reporting crimes to police means alot go unreported - FACT!
AND - THE WAY IN WHICH THE POLICE STATIONS LOCAL NUMBERS HAVE ALL BEEN CENTRALISED TO "HELEN STREET, GOVAN!" HAS DONE LITTLE OR NOTHING FOR BEING ABLE TO SPEAK TO "YOUR" LOCAL
OFFICERS, AT YOUR LOCAL STATION.
Cut the beurocracy and red tape and scrap the call centre - it does nothing for the people of Glasgow, and everything for the police to be able to sit around on their bums even more.
Streetwatch and taxi marshalls at ranks in the city centre have cut fights and trouble in the queues especially at weekends.
But - train stations need managed far better than simply shoving in a few extra cameras and expecting people to bother about their presence.
Those determined enough to commit crimes will do it whether on camera or not, and the "hoodies" can easily disguise themselves.
So - despite the reduction the CCTV may bring, alot more people will feel that "Big Brother" is watching them, and their civil liberties as innocent commuters are being stripped yet further!
What rights do we have left as members of our communities ?
What rights do we have as voters / members of the electorate ?
What rights do we have - a question which is not being asked nearly enough - and an issue which needs to be fought far more to give us our basic human rights back - more especially politically!
John,
Much as I'd like to agree with you there is no replacing or substitution for plain old policing at street level.
We are losing our community officers, familiar police officers who patrol our streets on foot, as well as in their "panda cars"
Lets start to see a better partnership between the public and police - not this CCTV crap which will do little or nothing to help the dire relationship which exists between the police and public.
The number of crimes committed and those reported do not match up - FACT!
The lack of respect for police especially in areas of poverty and deprivation is only increasing - FACT!
The fear of repercussions from reporting crimes to police means alot go unreported - FACT!
AND - THE WAY IN WHICH THE POLICE STATIONS LOCAL NUMBERS HAVE ALL BEEN CENTRALISED TO "HELEN STREET, GOVAN!" HAS DONE LITTLE OR NOTHING FOR BEING ABLE TO SPEAK TO "YOUR" LOCAL
OFFICERS, AT YOUR LOCAL STATION.
Cut the beurocracy and red tape and scrap the call centre - it does nothing for the people of Glasgow, and everything for the police to be able to sit around on their bums even more.
Streetwatch and taxi marshalls at ranks in the city centre have cut fights and trouble in the queues especially at weekends.
But - train stations need managed far better than simply shoving in a few extra cameras and expecting people to bother about their presence.
Those determined enough to commit crimes will do it whether on camera or not, and the "hoodies" can easily disguise themselves.
So - despite the reduction the CCTV may bring, alot more people will feel that "Big Brother" is watching them, and their civil liberties as innocent commuters are being stripped yet further!
What rights do we have left as members of our communities ?
What rights do we have as voters / members of the electorate ?
What rights do we have - a question which is not being asked nearly enough - and an issue which needs to be fought far more to give us our basic human rights back - more especially politically!
Posted by: roor06, glasgow on 3:00am Wed 5 Mar 08
[quote][bold]john mcmaster[/bold] wrote:
so, roor06 and others, CCTV is not a deterrent? Maybe not in every case but I can remember the high incidence of vandalism to cars at Shettleston station before CCTV was introduced. By the way, CCTV does not just record crimes for posterity, systems such as streetwatch are constantly monitored and can lead to effective, sometimes life-saving, interventions. Not as often as we would like but better than nothing. So stop whining, smartasses[/quote] I"m not anti cameras however,as I read article,It states these will be positioned on the platforms. Not in car parks ...
And as P.P says, all the determined crims know how to disguise themselves when it comes down to cctv evidence ...
john mcmaster wrote:
so, roor06 and others, CCTV is not a deterrent? Maybe not in every case but I can remember the high incidence of vandalism to cars at Shettleston station before CCTV was introduced. By the way, CCTV does not just record crimes for posterity, systems such as streetwatch are constantly monitored and can lead to effective, sometimes life-saving, interventions. Not as often as we would like but better than nothing. So stop whining, smartasses
I"m not anti cameras however,as I read article,It states these will be positioned on the platforms. Not in car parks ...
And as P.P says, all the determined crims know how to disguise themselves when it comes down to cctv evidence ...
Comment | Read Comments (20)
