Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 11:29am Mon 10 Mar 08
[quote]"Let's be sensible here. There is not a paedophile lurking round every corner and all this is doing is creating a culture of fear."[/quote]
[bold]Agree with Mr Aitkens 100%![/bold]
This is an [bold]outrageous over-reaction to an over-hyped threat[/bold], which will continue the erosion of personal rights and privacy, and do further damage to communities by promoting the 'stranger-danger' myth.
Of course, it helps boost the profits of private companies engaged in the burgeoning 'security' industry!
"Let's be sensible here. There is not a paedophile lurking round every corner and all this is doing is creating a culture of fear."
Agree with Mr Aitkens 100%!
This is an
outrageous over-reaction to an over-hyped threat, which will continue the erosion of personal rights and privacy, and do further damage to communities by promoting the 'stranger-danger' myth.
Of course, it helps boost the profits of private companies engaged in the burgeoning 'security' industry!
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 11:59am Mon 10 Mar 08
This violation of human rights should be refered to the Information Comissioner, in London. There is no way that holding someones thumbprint/personal info can be justifed in a mundane context. by all meas have CCTV, and security measures , but taking their thumbprints? I feel this is being used to condition the population into accepting the ID card nonsense through a backdoor. And how did the nursery come to this?
This violation of human rights should be refered to the Information Comissioner, in London. There is no way that holding someones thumbprint/personal info can be justifed in a mundane context. by all meas have CCTV, and security measures , but taking their thumbprints? I feel this is being used to condition the population into accepting the ID card nonsense through a backdoor. And how did the nursery come to this?
Posted by: dan, West end on 12:28pm Mon 10 Mar 08
I think this is an infringement of a persons rights.The police can take the fingerprints only if a person is arrested or detained.Here we have a private company/person requiring them needlessly as there are other adequate methods of security available.
I would like to know if a child would be dis-barred if a parent refused to submit to this.Also I am surprised that of the parents of all the 55 children at the nursery not one,according to Mr McClure offered any negative feedback.
All compliant.Not one objector?
I think this is an infringement of a persons rights.The police can take the fingerprints only if a person is arrested or detained.Here we have a private company/person requiring them needlessly as there are other adequate methods of security available.
I would like to know if a child would be dis-barred if a parent refused to submit to this.Also I am surprised that of the parents of all the 55 children at the nursery not one,according to Mr McClure offered any negative feedback.
All compliant.Not one objector?
Posted by: Ladofglas25, Glasgow on 12:52pm Mon 10 Mar 08
"The computer stores a numerical pattern for that fingerprint, not a copy of the fingerprint."
total rubbish!, all biometric scanners MUST take an image of the subject, fingerprint, retena for example BEFORE that information can be stored as a binary equivilent!
the one thing that made scotland stand out from the likes of the paranoia brigade of england and america, is the fact the scottish governement are publicaly opposed to this biometreic nonsence, please tell me how exactly a fingerprint reader is gonna stop someone faking references or using an alias with no criminal record?
"The computer stores a numerical pattern for that fingerprint, not a copy of the fingerprint."
total rubbish!, all biometric scanners MUST take an image of the subject, fingerprint, retena for example BEFORE that information can be stored as a binary equivilent!
the one thing that made scotland stand out from the likes of the paranoia brigade of england and america, is the fact the scottish governement are publicaly opposed to this biometreic nonsence, please tell me how exactly a fingerprint reader is gonna stop someone faking references or using an alias with no criminal record?
Posted by: Heather, Glasgow on 1:06pm Mon 10 Mar 08
Having seen last week's BBC undercover expose of nurseries, it seems pointless to fingerprint children for their security when the staff taking care of them inside the building are likely to be unvetted, untrained, stroppy teenagers who despise the children in their care.
Having seen last week's BBC undercover expose of nurseries, it seems pointless to fingerprint children for their security when the staff taking care of them inside the building are likely to be unvetted, untrained, stroppy teenagers who despise the children in their care.
Posted by: tam-m, southside on 1:29pm Mon 10 Mar 08
bit over the top but if the parents are happy to indulge then why not .be more worrying when this biometric identity is forced on the masses.
soon need your biometric detail card to get into tesco/asda and so on.agree with meep backdoor conditioning has already started with the biometric cards for students which is at the moment not compulsory but if you dont have one you can not get a student loan.
next step will be biometric cards for the unemployed which again will not be compulsory but if you dont have one you will not get benefits.
followed by the workers who dont have a card being unemployable.
welcome to safe/secure britain.
bit over the top but if the parents are happy to indulge then why not .be more worrying when this biometric identity is forced on the masses.
soon need your biometric detail card to get into tesco/asda and so on.agree with meep backdoor conditioning has already started with the biometric cards for students which is at the moment not compulsory but if you dont have one you can not get a student loan.
next step will be biometric cards for the unemployed which again will not be compulsory but if you dont have one you will not get benefits.
followed by the workers who dont have a card being unemployable.
welcome to safe/secure britain.
Posted by: scott mcclure, High Blantyre on 1:42pm Mon 10 Mar 08
hi all. as the owner of ally bally bee i feel compelled to answer some of the questions raised here.
with regard to it being an over reaction to an over hyped threat- surely any threat to a child is worth considering- over hyped or not. i wonder if the gentleman activates all his locks on his front door or just the yale at night? after all the chances of him being broken into are remote.
the use of fingerprint to gain access is not an infringement of human rights-why? parents are not obliged to use it. they may use a key fob or even ring the door bell if they so choose- however fobs can be lost and using the doorbell takes important staff away from their duties.
the access is only via the front door and parents can only access the area where there child is- obviously parents are not vetted for criminal records- surely that is an invasion of privacy.
with regards to last weeks "whistleblower" programme on the bbc- the 'poster' is correct- serious issues were raised. in england ofsted is the governing body, however in scotland we use the care commission whose standards are second to none. also, in our experience disclosure scotland can complete checks on staff in as little as 7 days, they are vetted to the highest degree, including the necessity for refernces from previous employers. out of 15 staff, we employ only 2 teenagers who were carefully chosen as to attitude and desire to care for children. I can only assume that all nurseries in scotland do the same.
i can say in all honesty, that all our parents are happy with this and the use of the nurserycam- as are the tens of 1000's of parents in england and indeed around the world who use this technology. kind regards
scott mcclure- ally bally bee childcare ltd.
hi all. as the owner of ally bally bee i feel compelled to answer some of the questions raised here.
with regard to it being an over reaction to an over hyped threat- surely any threat to a child is worth considering- over hyped or not. i wonder if the gentleman activates all his locks on his front door or just the yale at night? after all the chances of him being broken into are remote.
the use of fingerprint to gain access is not an infringement of human rights-why? parents are not obliged to use it. they may use a key fob or even ring the door bell if they so choose- however fobs can be lost and using the doorbell takes important staff away from their duties.
the access is only via the front door and parents can only access the area where there child is- obviously parents are not vetted for criminal records- surely that is an invasion of privacy.
with regards to last weeks "whistleblower" programme on the bbc- the 'poster' is correct- serious issues were raised. in england ofsted is the governing body, however in scotland we use the care commission whose standards are second to none. also, in our experience disclosure scotland can complete checks on staff in as little as 7 days, they are vetted to the highest degree, including the necessity for refernces from previous employers. out of 15 staff, we employ only 2 teenagers who were carefully chosen as to attitude and desire to care for children. I can only assume that all nurseries in scotland do the same.
i can say in all honesty, that all our parents are happy with this and the use of the nurserycam- as are the tens of 1000's of parents in england and indeed around the world who use this technology. kind regards
scott mcclure- ally bally bee childcare ltd.
Posted by: dan, West end on 1:55pm Mon 10 Mar 08
Mr McClure,
Thanks for coming on and clarifying a few issues.I am all for stringent child security/protection but I still have reservations about this system.
Regards,
Dan
Mr McClure,
Thanks for coming on and clarifying a few issues.I am all for stringent child security/protection but I still have reservations about this system.
Regards,
Dan
Posted by: Whatever, Wherever on 2:00pm Mon 10 Mar 08
[italic]"And the system keeps a record of all access, so the nursery has a logbook of all the people that have gained access to the building. It also means children have no way of leaving the nursery unsupervised".[/italic]
This system used to be called "qualified staff"
Are the staff not acquainted with the parents before the child is admitted? Does each child not have a specified care worker who monitors the comings and goings of each child in her/his care?
If present safety rules are adhered to then there is absolutely no need for ths procedure.
"And the system keeps a record of all access, so the nursery has a logbook of all the people that have gained access to the building. It also means children have no way of leaving the nursery unsupervised".
This system used to be called "qualified staff"
Are the staff not acquainted with the parents before the child is admitted? Does each child not have a specified care worker who monitors the comings and goings of each child in her/his care?
If present safety rules are adhered to then there is absolutely no need for ths procedure.
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 3:06pm Mon 10 Mar 08
[quote]with regard to it being an over reaction to an over hyped threat- surely any threat to a child is worth considering- over hyped or not. i wonder if the gentleman activates all his locks on his front door or just the yale at night? after all the chances of him being broken into are remote. [/quote]
Thank you for responding Mr McClure, however your use of burglary as an analogy only exemplifies my point and heightens my original concern: child abduction from a nursery by a stranger is probably as distant from burglary on the crime frequency scales as you could possibly get: to directly compare them - even analogously - is a nonsense.
In addition, whether I choose to use all my locks or not, is a matter of personal choice and personal convenience: it does not involve any third-party and most certainly does not involve storing personal data in a potentially insecure environment.
with regard to it being an over reaction to an over hyped threat- surely any threat to a child is worth considering- over hyped or not. i wonder if the gentleman activates all his locks on his front door or just the yale at night? after all the chances of him being broken into are remote.
Thank you for responding Mr McClure, however your use of burglary as an analogy only exemplifies my point and heightens my original concern: child abduction from a nursery by a stranger is probably as distant from burglary on the crime frequency scales as you could possibly get: to directly compare them - even analogously - is a nonsense.
In addition, whether I choose to use all my locks or not, is a matter of personal choice and personal convenience: it does not involve any third-party and most certainly does not involve storing personal data in a potentially insecure environment.
Posted by: thistlemad, Ayrshire on 6:57pm Mon 10 Mar 08
At my age I don`t think I am easilt influenced. BUT I see nothing wrong with this system.
Parents etc are obviously ok with it, so why is everyone else complaining?
Same as ID cards. Personally if someone has nothing to hide, why should they object?
ONE card which holds the same info as a driving licence, passport, NHS card SHOULD pose no danger since we mostly already have these individually anyway.
Most other countries have ID cards, so whats the problem?
At my age I don`t think I am easilt influenced. BUT I see nothing wrong with this system.
Parents etc are obviously ok with it, so why is everyone else complaining?
Same as ID cards. Personally if someone has nothing to hide, why should they object?
ONE card which holds the same info as a driving licence, passport, NHS card SHOULD pose no danger since we mostly already have these individually anyway.
Most other countries have ID cards, so whats the problem?
Posted by: theturfburner, Western Scotland on 7:52pm Mon 10 Mar 08
Under what legal authority are these fingerprints being taken? This action could be a breach of the parent’s right to privacy as enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998.
What is this country coming to? Lets catch the kiddies young and shown them the true meaning of the Blair/Brown Stalinist police state.
Under what legal authority are these fingerprints being taken? This action could be a breach of the parent’s right to privacy as enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998.
What is this country coming to? Lets catch the kiddies young and shown them the true meaning of the Blair/Brown Stalinist police state.
Posted by: scott mcclure, High Blantyre on 8:49pm Mon 10 Mar 08
[quote][bold]theturfburner[/bold] wrote:
Under what legal authority are these fingerprints being taken? This action could be a breach of the parent’s right to privacy as enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998. What is this country coming to? Lets catch the kiddies young and shown them the true meaning of the Blair/Brown Stalinist police state. [/quote] it seems that there is a bit of confusion here. we do not fingerprint the children at all. the adults voluntarily have their finger scanned and it is used to enable them to open the front door. it is instead of a door card or key fob used elsewhere- these things can be lost, your fingerprint cannot.
theturfburner wrote:
Under what legal authority are these fingerprints being taken? This action could be a breach of the parent’s right to privacy as enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998. What is this country coming to? Lets catch the kiddies young and shown them the true meaning of the Blair/Brown Stalinist police state.
it seems that there is a bit of confusion here. we do not fingerprint the children at all. the adults voluntarily have their finger scanned and it is used to enable them to open the front door. it is instead of a door card or key fob used elsewhere- these things can be lost, your fingerprint cannot.
Posted by: Whatever, Wherever on 9:03am Tue 11 Mar 08
[italic]"scott mcclure said:
it is instead of a door card or key fob used elsewhere- these things can be lost,"[/italic]
These things can be replaced.
"scott mcclure said:
it is instead of a door card or key fob used elsewhere- these things can be lost,"
These things can be replaced.
Posted by: Heather, Glasgow on 2:58pm Tue 11 Mar 08
[quote][bold]scott mcclure[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]theturfburner[/bold] wrote:
Under what legal authority are these fingerprints being taken? This action could be a breach of the parent’s right to privacy as enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998. What is this country coming to? Lets catch the kiddies young and shown them the true meaning of the Blair/Brown Stalinist police state. [/quote] it seems that there is a bit of confusion here. we do not fingerprint the children at all. the adults voluntarily have their finger scanned and it is used to enable them to open the front door. it is instead of a door card or key fob used elsewhere- these things can be lost, your fingerprint cannot.[/quote] In which case the Evening Times should apologise for exploiting - excuse me, photographing - a child with fingerprint ink on his thumb as the main illustration for this story.
scott mcclure wrote:
theturfburner wrote:
Under what legal authority are these fingerprints being taken? This action could be a breach of the parent’s right to privacy as enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998. What is this country coming to? Lets catch the kiddies young and shown them the true meaning of the Blair/Brown Stalinist police state.
it seems that there is a bit of confusion here. we do not fingerprint the children at all. the adults voluntarily have their finger scanned and it is used to enable them to open the front door. it is instead of a door card or key fob used elsewhere- these things can be lost, your fingerprint cannot.
In which case the Evening Times should apologise for exploiting - excuse me, photographing - a child with fingerprint ink on his thumb as the main illustration for this story.
Comment | Read Comments (15)
