Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 10:55am Mon 17 Mar 08
This kind of local-based, local-driven, community project is exactly the kind of action which will help restore pride to our communities, and in this case, also help young people by giving them something to do in their spare time.
[bold]However, if[/bold] Glasgow City Council has anything to do with it, then it will have absolutely no chance of succeeding. Remember just last year - without ANY public consultation - [bold]Purcell and his cronies handed over all of Glasgow's swimming pools to a private company[/bold] to manage... do you really think this private company would allow GCC to create a competitor in its midst? I think not!
This kind of local-based, local-driven, community project is exactly the kind of action which will help restore pride to our communities, and in this case, also help young people by giving them something to do in their spare time.
However, if Glasgow City Council has anything to do with it, then it will have absolutely no chance of succeeding. Remember just last year - without ANY public consultation -
Purcell and his cronies handed over all of Glasgow's swimming pools to a private company to manage... do you really think this private company would allow GCC to create a competitor in its midst? I think not!
Posted by: jenniewilson, Glasgow on 11:18am Mon 17 Mar 08
Sydney, 10.55
I like a bit of debate as much as the next man (woman!) but what you said is just nonsense.
Council swimming pools, gyms, etc aren't run by a private company - I think it's a charity completely owned by the council (although stand to be wrong if someone can correct me).
Given that there are no public facilities in Temple I'm sure if the money is available this can go ahead. It certainly won't have a council-run charity objecting to a new service in an area where there is nothing anyway.
Sydney, 10.55
I like a bit of debate as much as the next man (woman!) but what you said is just nonsense.
Council swimming pools, gyms, etc aren't run by a private company - I think it's a charity completely owned by the council (although stand to be wrong if someone can correct me).
Given that there are no public facilities in Temple I'm sure if the money is available this can go ahead. It certainly won't have a council-run charity objecting to a new service in an area where there is nothing anyway.
Posted by: Johnny Punchclock, Glasgow on 11:54am Mon 17 Mar 08
Temple is one of those areas with a lot of unpleasant young people, and uncaring parents incapable of controlling them, which explains why the existing facility for young people got burned down. How can we be sure that they won't torch whatever is put up to replace it?
This local community organisation is trying to get their fellow citizens to pay £3m to them. But would the rest of us be allowed to use any new faclity? I know Temple. One thing's for sure - if a young person from outside Temple was to wander in they would be at risk of being hurt and killed by local young people because of the territoriality nonsense that infests such areas. Netrherton's not that much better.
If there's £3m going spare for Netherton and Temple I'd like to see it spent on a decent library (suppressed giggles).
But why should they get £3m? There is no youth project or community centre serving Hyndland and the West End. Surely residents there deserve £3m for a public facility for functions, classes and social events? At least it would be less likely to get burned down by local yoof. People from Temple would be welcome so long as they left their knives and spray cans and knuckle dusters at home.
Temple is one of those areas with a lot of unpleasant young people, and uncaring parents incapable of controlling them, which explains why the existing facility for young people got burned down. How can we be sure that they won't torch whatever is put up to replace it?
This local community organisation is trying to get their fellow citizens to pay £3m to them. But would the rest of us be allowed to use any new faclity? I know Temple. One thing's for sure - if a young person from outside Temple was to wander in they would be at risk of being hurt and killed by local young people because of the territoriality nonsense that infests such areas. Netrherton's not that much better.
If there's £3m going spare for Netherton and Temple I'd like to see it spent on a decent library (suppressed giggles).
But why should they get £3m? There is no youth project or community centre serving Hyndland and the West End. Surely residents there deserve £3m for a public facility for functions, classes and social events? At least it would be less likely to get burned down by local yoof. People from Temple would be welcome so long as they left their knives and spray cans and knuckle dusters at home.
Posted by: Johnny Punchclock, Glasgow on 12:00pm Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote]The regeneration group, made up of members of North Temple Community Council as well as other interested groups and the city council, believe young people in Temple, Anniesland, Knightswood South and Blairdardie would especially benefit from a new sports hall.[/quote]
That is a blatantly self serving argument. If they believe that - which I doubt - how could we be sure that these young people would be safe from violent and threatening local youth?
Anyway the Donald Dewar sports centre is only just up - there's a good bus service through Temple and Netherton they can use to get there. They can also cross Great Western Road and use the Knightswood Community Centre.
The regeneration group, made up of members of North Temple Community Council as well as other interested groups and the city council, believe young people in Temple, Anniesland, Knightswood South and Blairdardie would especially benefit from a new sports hall.
That is a blatantly self serving argument. If they believe that - which I doubt - how could we be sure that these young people would be safe from violent and threatening local youth?
Anyway the Donald Dewar sports centre is only just up - there's a good bus service through Temple and Netherton they can use to get there. They can also cross Great Western Road and use the Knightswood Community Centre.
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 12:11pm Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]jenniewilson[/bold] wrote:
Sydney, 10.55 I like a bit of debate as much as the next man (woman!) but what you said is just nonsense. Council swimming pools, gyms, etc aren't run by a private company - I think it's a charity completely owned by the council (although stand to be wrong if someone can correct me). Given that there are no public facilities in Temple I'm sure if the money is available this can go ahead. It certainly won't have a council-run charity objecting to a new service in an area where there is nothing anyway.[/quote] Oh well Jennie of the council, I suppose I should be grateful that you accepted that the transfer took place without ANY public consultation and are only contesting the semantics of my comment.
[italic]You can be corrected[/italic] by going to the Culture and Sport Glasgow website (go to 'about us') and reading the following:
[quote]Culture and Sport Glasgow and Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC are the [bold]new companies[/bold] established to deliver cultural, leisure and outdoor recreation services for the city of Glasgow.[/quote]
Or you could go to the following url for more enlightened info:
[quote]cultureandsportglasg
ow.com[/quote]
jenniewilson wrote:
Sydney, 10.55 I like a bit of debate as much as the next man (woman!) but what you said is just nonsense. Council swimming pools, gyms, etc aren't run by a private company - I think it's a charity completely owned by the council (although stand to be wrong if someone can correct me). Given that there are no public facilities in Temple I'm sure if the money is available this can go ahead. It certainly won't have a council-run charity objecting to a new service in an area where there is nothing anyway.
Oh well Jennie of the council, I suppose I should be grateful that you accepted that the transfer took place without ANY public consultation and are only contesting the semantics of my comment.
You can be corrected by going to the Culture and Sport Glasgow website (go to 'about us') and reading the following:
Culture and Sport Glasgow and Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC are the new companies established to deliver cultural, leisure and outdoor recreation services for the city of Glasgow.
Or you could go to the following url for more enlightened info:
cultureandsportglasg
ow.com
Posted by: Pete, Glasgow on 1:57pm Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Johnny Punchclock[/bold] wrote:
Temple is one of those areas with a lot of unpleasant young people, and uncaring parents incapable of controlling them, which explains why the existing facility for young people got burned down. How can we be sure that they won't torch whatever is put up to replace it? This local community organisation is trying to get their fellow citizens to pay £3m to them. But would the rest of us be allowed to use any new faclity? I know Temple. One thing's for sure - if a young person from outside Temple was to wander in they would be at risk of being hurt and killed by local young people because of the territoriality nonsense that infests such areas. Netrherton's not that much better. If there's £3m going spare for Netherton and Temple I'd like to see it spent on a decent library (suppressed giggles). But why should they get £3m? There is no youth project or community centre serving Hyndland and the West End. Surely residents there deserve £3m for a public facility for functions, classes and social events? At least it would be less likely to get burned down by local yoof. People from Temple would be welcome so long as they left their knives and spray cans and knuckle dusters at home. [/quote] Kind of agree - remember when there was a library there? Closed down cos no-one was interested.
Is it not a wee bit naive to say build a youth centre and you'll solve youth crime? Better to catch the kids vandalising and torching the place and give them community service building the new centre.
The cut their balls off.
Johnny Punchclock wrote:
Temple is one of those areas with a lot of unpleasant young people, and uncaring parents incapable of controlling them, which explains why the existing facility for young people got burned down. How can we be sure that they won't torch whatever is put up to replace it? This local community organisation is trying to get their fellow citizens to pay £3m to them. But would the rest of us be allowed to use any new faclity? I know Temple. One thing's for sure - if a young person from outside Temple was to wander in they would be at risk of being hurt and killed by local young people because of the territoriality nonsense that infests such areas. Netrherton's not that much better. If there's £3m going spare for Netherton and Temple I'd like to see it spent on a decent library (suppressed giggles). But why should they get £3m? There is no youth project or community centre serving Hyndland and the West End. Surely residents there deserve £3m for a public facility for functions, classes and social events? At least it would be less likely to get burned down by local yoof. People from Temple would be welcome so long as they left their knives and spray cans and knuckle dusters at home.
Kind of agree - remember when there was a library there? Closed down cos no-one was interested.
Is it not a wee bit naive to say build a youth centre and you'll solve youth crime? Better to catch the kids vandalising and torching the place and give them community service building the new centre.
The cut their balls off.
Posted by: Sid Noggins, East End on 3:33pm Mon 17 Mar 08
If it's only £3m you want, give Mucca a call, she's just won the lottery - and didn't even buy a ticket.
If it's only £3m you want, give Mucca a call, she's just won the lottery - and didn't even buy a ticket.
Posted by: jenniewilson, Glasgow on 4:25pm Mon 17 Mar 08
Sydney, 12.11
That's very clever. It's just a pity it's not true. As requested I visited Culture and Sport Glasgow's website, and this is what I got.
[italic]http://www.csglasgow
.org/aboutus/
Culture and Sport Glasgow is registered in Scotland No SC313851 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES. Culture and Sport Glasgow is a company limited by guarantee and is registered as a charity (No SCO37844) with the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator.
Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC is registered in Scotland No SC313850 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES.[/italic]
As for working for the council, alas not Sydney. I just think part of mature debate is not making things up
Sydney, 12.11
That's very clever. It's just a pity it's not true. As requested I visited Culture and Sport Glasgow's website, and this is what I got.
http://www.csglasgow
.org/aboutus/
Culture and Sport Glasgow is registered in Scotland No SC313851 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES. Culture and Sport Glasgow is a company limited by guarantee and is registered as a charity (No SCO37844) with the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator.
Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC is registered in Scotland No SC313850 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES.
As for working for the council, alas not Sydney. I just think part of mature debate is not making things up
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 5:06pm Mon 17 Mar 08
Jennie of the council wrote:
[quote]It's just a pity it's not true.[/quote]
and
[quote]not making things up[/quote]
Well if anyone wants to visit the page in question they can see for themselves whether the following sentence appears:
[quote]Culture and Sport Glasgow and Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC are the [bold]new companies[/bold] established to deliver cultural, leisure and outdoor recreation services for the city of Glasgow.[/quote]
The words appear and so do the following:
[quote]The proposal was approved by Glasgow City Council in February 2007 and both [bold]companies commence trading[/bold] from 1 April 2007.[/quote]
The fact is that these entities are [italic]companies who trade[/italic] and that's even by CSG's own definition, so I suggest if you have a problem with that Jennie you should pick up the phone (it's still an internal number) and tell them that they are a charity. The multi-millionaire businessmen who were recruited to the board might disagree with you though. ;-)
Nice to see that in the current climate of denial surrounding woeful consultations by the council, you at least continue to agree with me that there was [bold]no attempt at any public consultation before the companies were formed[/bold].
Jennie of the council wrote:
It's just a pity it's not true.
and
not making things up
Well if anyone wants to visit the page in question they can see for themselves whether the following sentence appears:
Culture and Sport Glasgow and Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC are the new companies established to deliver cultural, leisure and outdoor recreation services for the city of Glasgow.
The words appear and so do the following:
The proposal was approved by Glasgow City Council in February 2007 and both companies commence trading from 1 April 2007.
The fact is that these entities are
companies who trade and that's even by CSG's own definition, so I suggest if you have a problem with that Jennie you should pick up the phone (it's still an internal number) and tell them that they are a charity. The multi-millionaire businessmen who were recruited to the board might disagree with you though. ;-)
Nice to see that in the current climate of denial surrounding woeful consultations by the council, you at least continue to agree with me that there was
no attempt at any public consultation before the companies were formed.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 5:25pm Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Sydney Meriwether[/bold] wrote:
This kind of local-based, local-driven, community project is exactly the kind of action which will help restore pride to our communities, and in this case, also help young people by giving them something to do in their spare time. [bold]However, if[/bold] Glasgow City Council has anything to do with it, then it will have absolutely no chance of succeeding. Remember just last year - without ANY public consultation - [bold]Purcell and his cronies handed over all of Glasgow's swimming pools to a private company[/bold] to manage... do you really think this private company would allow GCC to create a competitor in its midst? I think not![/quote]
Sydney - I echo your sentiments whole heartedly, till the point that you ask:
[quote]do you really think this private company would allow GCC to create a competitor in its midst?[/quote]
You only have to look at the [bold]"Save Govanhill Baths"[/bold] website and see the gusto, community spirit, and determination within the
group to realise anything is possible if enough people put their hearts and minds to it.
The number of Council staff who are openly supporting the grand plans is surprising to say the least.
I just hope this Netherton group take inspirations from the [bold]"Save Govanhill Baths"[/bold] group, and see the possibilities that lie before them - but only if they fully engage with the community and have everyone involved from the offset.
Lets show Glasgow City Council who rules & who calls the shots!
We voted them in & can just as easily vote them out!
Sydney Meriwether wrote:
This kind of local-based, local-driven, community project is exactly the kind of action which will help restore pride to our communities, and in this case, also help young people by giving them something to do in their spare time. However, if Glasgow City Council has anything to do with it, then it will have absolutely no chance of succeeding. Remember just last year - without ANY public consultation - Purcell and his cronies handed over all of Glasgow's swimming pools to a private company to manage... do you really think this private company would allow GCC to create a competitor in its midst? I think not!
Sydney - I echo your sentiments whole heartedly, till the point that you ask:
do you really think this private company would allow GCC to create a competitor in its midst?
You only have to look at the
"Save Govanhill Baths" website and see the gusto, community spirit, and determination within the
group to realise anything is possible if enough people put their hearts and minds to it.
The number of Council staff who are openly supporting the grand plans is surprising to say the least.
I just hope this Netherton group take inspirations from the
"Save Govanhill Baths" group, and see the possibilities that lie before them - but only if they fully engage with the community and have everyone involved from the offset.
Lets show Glasgow City Council who rules & who calls the shots!
We voted them in & can just as easily vote them out!
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 5:33pm Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]jenniewilson[/bold] wrote:
Sydney, 12.11 That's very clever. It's just a pity it's not true. As requested I visited Culture and Sport Glasgow's website, and this is what I got. [italic]http://www.csglasgow .org/aboutus/ Culture and Sport Glasgow is registered in Scotland No SC313851 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES. Culture and Sport Glasgow is a company limited by guarantee and is registered as a charity (No SCO37844) with the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator. Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC is registered in Scotland No SC313850 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES.[/italic] As for working for the council, alas not Sydney. I just think part of mature debate is not making things up[/quote]
And I'll tell you another thing -
Since "Culture & Sport" took over the Leisure Centres accross the city the differences have been for the worse:
Repairs are carried out even less frequently than they were before under the council.
The telephone switchboard has been changed over, from B.T. to another provider.
The opening message with customer options has changed from a pleasant enough woman, to a flat, positively depressed guy,
The numbers have all been changed over - from more easily memorable numbers to a far more awkward & uncommonly used number.
And, the idea of it being a charitable Trust is positively scandalous, as the way it conducts itself has yet to be proven good value for tax payers & investers alike.
jenniewilson wrote:
Sydney, 12.11 That's very clever. It's just a pity it's not true. As requested I visited Culture and Sport Glasgow's website, and this is what I got. http://www.csglasgow .org/aboutus/ Culture and Sport Glasgow is registered in Scotland No SC313851 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES. Culture and Sport Glasgow is a company limited by guarantee and is registered as a charity (No SCO37844) with the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator. Culture and Sport Glasgow (Trading) CIC is registered in Scotland No SC313850 with its registered office at 20 Trongate, Glasgow G1 5ES. As for working for the council, alas not Sydney. I just think part of mature debate is not making things up
And I'll tell you another thing -
Since "Culture & Sport" took over the Leisure Centres accross the city the differences have been for the worse:
Repairs are carried out even less frequently than they were before under the council.
The telephone switchboard has been changed over, from B.T. to another provider.
The opening message with customer options has changed from a pleasant enough woman, to a flat, positively depressed guy,
The numbers have all been changed over - from more easily memorable numbers to a far more awkward & uncommonly used number.
And, the idea of it being a charitable Trust is positively scandalous, as the way it conducts itself has yet to be proven good value for tax payers & investers alike.
Posted by: emma, Glasgow on 5:38pm Mon 17 Mar 08
It would be good if the Council looked at all the facilities that were closed down again. Pollokshaws Baths are crying out to be opened again - area of high unemployment, no handy facility nearby, and councillors not listening to their voters and giving us GO Ape instead.
It would be good if the Council looked at all the facilities that were closed down again. Pollokshaws Baths are crying out to be opened again - area of high unemployment, no handy facility nearby, and councillors not listening to their voters and giving us GO Ape instead.
Posted by: emma, Glasgow on 5:41pm Mon 17 Mar 08
It would be good if the Council looked at all the facilities that were closed down again. Pollokshaws Baths are crying out to be opened again - area of high unemployment, no handy facility nearby, and councillors not listening to their voters and giving us GO Ape instead.
It would be good if the Council looked at all the facilities that were closed down again. Pollokshaws Baths are crying out to be opened again - area of high unemployment, no handy facility nearby, and councillors not listening to their voters and giving us GO Ape instead.
Posted by: Joe Barr, Knightswood on 2:33am Wed 19 Mar 08
Sydney, the handover of Glasgows swimming pools is really nothing to do with this, since we are trying to get a community facility (for all age groups, and not just for sport) built IN PLACE of the old pool building. It has been too badly vandalised to be repaired.
Johnny Punchclock, there are unpleasant young people and uncaring parents in every corner of Glasgow, Temple is no different, other than it has been excluded from the old Social Inclusion (SIP) areas for many years and has suffered a great deal of neglect that nearby places like Yoker & Drumchapel have been able to address with access to huge amounts of funding for many years. If the facility is community owned and controlled, and is built after REAL community engagement, putting in place the kinds of facilities that are needed and wanted by the local community it will not be torched, I am sure of that. It would be like burning a bit of your own property. If you know Temple then you will know that the three streets where most of the problems stemmed from are now scheduled to be demolished, there is massive investment in private housing all around it. Temple is changing beyond all recognition and now is the best time to build a strong community spirit.
You should also know that the old library was replaced by a brand new, state-of-the-art library at Anniesland Cross. Maybe you should contact the Temple/Shafton Youth Project, based in a building beside the pool building, and get some idea of the fantastic work they do with young people - some of whom have seriously problematic pasts. I will not respond to the "knives and spray cans and knuckle dusters" comment. Pete, we are not naive. There are people who work for Social Services, C&S Glasgow's Community Facilities, plus a number of well established projects like the Three Eyes Project, Temple/Shafton Youth Project, The Buddies Playgroup, Temple After School Care, Netherton Community Centre's Advisory Committee, Caledonian Ti-Kwon-Do Centre, Netherton Amatuers FC and more, as well the local Community Council and Knightswood East Tenants & Residents Association. We have also secured the services of Westport Consulting. This is not a bunch of well meaning but naive volunteers.
Thanks finally to Emma (go girl!) and People Power. We have indeed taken a lot of inspiration from the Govanhill group. Our situation is slightly different though, since the pool building has been so badly vandalised it really is not an option to just "do it up" and re-open it, a much more radical proposal is needed and I think we can put that together - with the support of the local community. That was the reason for the publicity in the first place, to galvanise local people to get involved in the decisions about what will replace the old building.
Joe Barr.
Sydney, the handover of Glasgows swimming pools is really nothing to do with this, since we are trying to get a community facility (for all age groups, and not just for sport) built IN PLACE of the old pool building. It has been too badly vandalised to be repaired.
Johnny Punchclock, there are unpleasant young people and uncaring parents in every corner of Glasgow, Temple is no different, other than it has been excluded from the old Social Inclusion (SIP) areas for many years and has suffered a great deal of neglect that nearby places like Yoker & Drumchapel have been able to address with access to huge amounts of funding for many years. If the facility is community owned and controlled, and is built after REAL community engagement, putting in place the kinds of facilities that are needed and wanted by the local community it will not be torched, I am sure of that. It would be like burning a bit of your own property. If you know Temple then you will know that the three streets where most of the problems stemmed from are now scheduled to be demolished, there is massive investment in private housing all around it. Temple is changing beyond all recognition and now is the best time to build a strong community spirit.
You should also know that the old library was replaced by a brand new, state-of-the-art library at Anniesland Cross. Maybe you should contact the Temple/Shafton Youth Project, based in a building beside the pool building, and get some idea of the fantastic work they do with young people - some of whom have seriously problematic pasts. I will not respond to the "knives and spray cans and knuckle dusters" comment. Pete, we are not naive. There are people who work for Social Services, C&S Glasgow's Community Facilities, plus a number of well established projects like the Three Eyes Project, Temple/Shafton Youth Project, The Buddies Playgroup, Temple After School Care, Netherton Community Centre's Advisory Committee, Caledonian Ti-Kwon-Do Centre, Netherton Amatuers FC and more, as well the local Community Council and Knightswood East Tenants & Residents Association. We have also secured the services of Westport Consulting. This is not a bunch of well meaning but naive volunteers.
Thanks finally to Emma (go girl!) and People Power. We have indeed taken a lot of inspiration from the Govanhill group. Our situation is slightly different though, since the pool building has been so badly vandalised it really is not an option to just "do it up" and re-open it, a much more radical proposal is needed and I think we can put that together - with the support of the local community. That was the reason for the publicity in the first place, to galvanise local people to get involved in the decisions about what will replace the old building.
Joe Barr.
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