Posted by: Stewie Griffin, Glasgow on 11:21am Fri 9 May 08
Surely not in the West End. Must be those mucky pups coming from the East End dumping their rubbish. The red wine drinking westerns wouldn't possibly leave any rubbish lying around, would they?
Surely not in the West End. Must be those mucky pups coming from the East End dumping their rubbish. The red wine drinking westerns wouldn't possibly leave any rubbish lying around, would they?
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 11:24am Fri 9 May 08
Wise words indeed Mr Purcell, but forget about our dear green places for a moment, what about the most important street in Glasgow - who's cleaning that up???
[bold]tinyurl.com/5g3re7[/bold]
Wise words indeed Mr Purcell, but forget about our dear green places for a moment, what about the most important street in Glasgow - who's cleaning that up???
tinyurl.com/5g3re7Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 11:30am Fri 9 May 08
Littering fines are not and cannot be seen to be the answer long term - they simply [bold]DO NOT[/bold] work.
G.C.C. are foolhardy and naive to think that fines can be seen as the acceptable line to take, when they could be doing a whole lot more.
[bold]Try the provision of more adequate, and bigger bins.
Try placing recycling facilities in all city parks.
Try giving people the chance the first time to place their litter in the bin, instead of a fine first off.[/bold]
There are plenty alternatives which give a more positive message accross, and also mean the number of bins required are in place.
[bold]ULTIMATELY IF FORMERLY[/bold] (GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL)NOW [italic]"CULTURE & SPORT"[/italic] [bold]CANNOT OR WILL NOT PROVIDE ENOUGH BINS WITHIN ITS PARKS THEN THIS IS PROOF THAT THE COUNCIL HAVE WASHED THEIR HANDS OF THE FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY IN THE RUN UP TO 2014.
BUT, IT SEEMS SOME COUNCILLORS STILL WANT TO HAVE THEIR CAKE & EAT IT WHEN PEOPLE SEE THE LIST OF THOSE WHO RUN[/bold] [italic]"CULTURE & SPORT"[/italic] [bold]NOW:-[/bold]
[bold]THE Body of Culture And Sport members are:[/bold]
Baillie Liz Cameron, former Lord Provost (Chair)
The Rt Hon. The Lord McFarlane of Bearsden KT,
(allegedly 84 years old)
The Lord Dennis Stevenson of Coddenham CBE,
Cllr Aileen Colleran, (Labour whip)
Cllr Steven Curran, Cllr James Dornan, Cllr Arcie Graham, Sir Angus Grossart, Bridget McConnell (Chief Executive) Councillor Steven Purcell, & The Rt.Hon. George Reid.
So, with that line up of pocket liners, and spongers - is it any wonder our leisure centres, parks and other leisure facilities are going downhill in more ways than one.
Littering fines are not and cannot be seen to be the answer long term - they simply
DO NOT work.
G.C.C. are foolhardy and naive to think that fines can be seen as the acceptable line to take, when they could be doing a whole lot more.
Try the provision of more adequate, and bigger bins.
Try placing recycling facilities in all city parks.
Try giving people the chance the first time to place their litter in the bin, instead of a fine first off.
There are plenty alternatives which give a more positive message accross, and also mean the number of bins required are in place.
ULTIMATELY IF FORMERLY (GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL)NOW
"CULTURE & SPORT" CANNOT OR WILL NOT PROVIDE ENOUGH BINS WITHIN ITS PARKS THEN THIS IS PROOF THAT THE COUNCIL HAVE WASHED THEIR HANDS OF THE FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY IN THE RUN UP TO 2014.
BUT, IT SEEMS SOME COUNCILLORS STILL WANT TO HAVE THEIR CAKE & EAT IT WHEN PEOPLE SEE THE LIST OF THOSE WHO RUN "CULTURE & SPORT" NOW:-
THE Body of Culture And Sport members are:
Baillie Liz Cameron, former Lord Provost (Chair)
The Rt Hon. The Lord McFarlane of Bearsden KT,
(allegedly 84 years old)
The Lord Dennis Stevenson of Coddenham CBE,
Cllr Aileen Colleran, (Labour whip)
Cllr Steven Curran, Cllr James Dornan, Cllr Arcie Graham, Sir Angus Grossart, Bridget McConnell (Chief Executive) Councillor Steven Purcell, & The Rt.Hon. George Reid.
So, with that line up of pocket liners, and spongers - is it any wonder our leisure centres, parks and other leisure facilities are going downhill in more ways than one.
Posted by: Cityboy, Bishopbriggs on 11:49am Fri 9 May 08
Nice to see ET lowering its carbon footprint and recycling old stories from last year. Seem to remember a two page spread with pictures of rubbish skips on it.
well old news is new news.
Nice to see ET lowering its carbon footprint and recycling old stories from last year. Seem to remember a two page spread with pictures of rubbish skips on it.
well old news is new news.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 12:07pm Fri 9 May 08
Come on Cityboy, you don't seriously expect the E.T. to send its photographers out for fresh, up to date photos do you ?
That would be sinful - LOL ;-)
Wouldn't you far rather see these outdated, un-original, recycled stories - as originality in journalism these days is clealy asking too much!
Come on Cityboy, you don't seriously expect the E.T. to send its photographers out for fresh, up to date photos do you ?
That would be sinful - LOL ;-)
Wouldn't you far rather see these outdated, un-original, recycled stories - as originality in journalism these days is clealy asking too much!
Posted by: mulross, Glasgow on 12:22pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote]Try the provision of more adequate, and bigger bins.
Try placing recycling facilities in all city parks.
Try giving people the chance the first time to place their litter in the bin, instead of a fine first off.
There are plenty alternatives which give a more positive message accross, and also mean the number of bins required are in place.[/quote]
Unfortunately your suggestions totally fail to take in to account the mentality of so many Glasgow citizens, who see see it as being perfectly acceptable to leave their litter lying exactly where they have been sitting and expect someone else to clear it up.
If fines do not work then perhaps they should try flogging the offenders on the spot? Regardless of whether it's the "first time" they happen to have been caught
Kelvingrove Park is an absolute disgrace every time the sun comes out and there is [bold]NO EXCUSE[/bold] for it. I'm no fan of the Council, but the only people responsible for leaving the park in that state are the scum who are too lazy to walk to a bin.
Try the provision of more adequate, and bigger bins.
Try placing recycling facilities in all city parks.
Try giving people the chance the first time to place their litter in the bin, instead of a fine first off.
There are plenty alternatives which give a more positive message accross, and also mean the number of bins required are in place.
Unfortunately your suggestions totally fail to take in to account the mentality of so many Glasgow citizens, who see see it as being perfectly acceptable to leave their litter lying exactly where they have been sitting and expect someone else to clear it up.
If fines do not work then perhaps they should try flogging the offenders on the spot? Regardless of whether it's the "first time" they happen to have been caught
Kelvingrove Park is an absolute disgrace every time the sun comes out and there is
NO EXCUSE for it. I'm no fan of the Council, but the only people responsible for leaving the park in that state are the scum who are too lazy to walk to a bin.
Posted by: Glorious Failure, Glasgow on 12:23pm Fri 9 May 08
I am firmly of the belief that the minority of Glasgow residents who have time to spend in parks on weekdays would just dump their rubbish even if the park had fence to fence bins.
Unfortunately a significant minority of this city's residents have absolutely no respect for their surroundings.
I am firmly of the belief that the minority of Glasgow residents who have time to spend in parks on weekdays would just dump their rubbish even if the park had fence to fence bins.
Unfortunately a significant minority of this city's residents have absolutely no respect for their surroundings.
Posted by: mulross, Glasgow on 12:25pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Cityboy[/bold] wrote:
Nice to see ET lowering its carbon footprint and recycling old stories from last year. Seem to remember a two page spread with pictures of rubbish skips on it.
well old news is new news.[/quote] Just goes to show that the "education" approach and "providing more bins" is not making a blind bit of difference to the selfish and irresponsible behaviour of many park users. So, enforcement needs to be stepped up.
Cityboy wrote:
Nice to see ET lowering its carbon footprint and recycling old stories from last year. Seem to remember a two page spread with pictures of rubbish skips on it.
well old news is new news.
Just goes to show that the "education" approach and "providing more bins" is not making a blind bit of difference to the selfish and irresponsible behaviour of many park users. So, enforcement needs to be stepped up.
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 12:54pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote]Just goes to show that the "education" approach and "providing more bins" is not making a blind bit of difference [/quote]
Quite the contrary mulross, in case you haven't been reading the gleeful dispatches from city chambers, the council has been concentrating on enforcement over the last year (at the expense of education), so it is [bold]enforcement that is not making ANY difference[/bold]!
Just goes to show that the "education" approach and "providing more bins" is not making a blind bit of difference
Quite the contrary mulross, in case you haven't been reading the gleeful dispatches from city chambers, the council has been concentrating on enforcement over the last year (at the expense of education), so it is
enforcement that is not making ANY difference!
Posted by: JH, Glasgow on 1:15pm Fri 9 May 08
On a couple of points that need clarified:
People Power - CSG has no responsibility for parks - it is the Council - so i'm not sure where you get this misinformation from although i have noted that you frequently do have factual errors in your comments on GCC.
Sydney - sorry but the Clean Glasgow approach has always been explicitly clear to those who are genuinely interested in the campaign and therefore are not blindsided to those elements they wish to attack - and that approach has been three-way: awareness raising, improvements to Council services, and enforcement. This is why almost 10,000 community volunteers have participated in Clean Glasgow projects since launch last year.
In addition how would you define that the campaign is making a difference? For anyone who is genuinely interested, quantifiable and independent measures are now consistently indicating that the campaign IS making a difference.
Problems of this nature need an integrated approach however much of the campaign is not reported in the press.
Thanks to those who acknowledge that there is a significant minority in this city who would continue to litter regardless of whatever strategy is put into place. We at GCC Clean Glasgow are fully committed to this campaign for the long haul - despite some of these consipiracy theories that are progressed by people who clearly have too much time on their hands.
On a couple of points that need clarified:
People Power - CSG has no responsibility for parks - it is the Council - so i'm not sure where you get this misinformation from although i have noted that you frequently do have factual errors in your comments on GCC.
Sydney - sorry but the Clean Glasgow approach has always been explicitly clear to those who are genuinely interested in the campaign and therefore are not blindsided to those elements they wish to attack - and that approach has been three-way: awareness raising, improvements to Council services, and enforcement. This is why almost 10,000 community volunteers have participated in Clean Glasgow projects since launch last year.
In addition how would you define that the campaign is making a difference? For anyone who is genuinely interested, quantifiable and independent measures are now consistently indicating that the campaign IS making a difference.
Problems of this nature need an integrated approach however much of the campaign is not reported in the press.
Thanks to those who acknowledge that there is a significant minority in this city who would continue to litter regardless of whatever strategy is put into place. We at GCC Clean Glasgow are fully committed to this campaign for the long haul - despite some of these consipiracy theories that are progressed by people who clearly have too much time on their hands.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 1:32pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]mulross[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Cityboy[/bold] wrote: Nice to see ET lowering its carbon footprint and recycling old stories from last year. Seem to remember a two page spread with pictures of rubbish skips on it. well old news is new news.[/quote] Just goes to show that the "education" approach and "providing more bins" is not making a blind bit of difference to the selfish and irresponsible behaviour of many park users. So, enforcement needs to be stepped up.[/quote]
The problem here lies with the fact our good, hot sunny weather comes so little, perhaps if G.C.C. or should that be "Culture And Sport" were more in tune with the forecasts they'ed be able to provide for busier spells all year around.
But, only putting extra or additional bins out in the most exceptional weather will clearly not catch on in the earlier stages.
I still feel that the provision of bins and recycling facilities must be put in place first.
Fines will just be seen as a huge money spinner by G.C.C. or whoever stands to gain financially from this......
Maybe if people even know the money from their £50 fines was being re-invested into clean ups, and buying in new bins then they might not grudge it as much.
But, give us the re-assurance that the fines will be properly invested and spent on areas that matter - not just drained away in taxation, or used for insignificant, less relevant works.
mulross wrote:
Cityboy wrote: Nice to see ET lowering its carbon footprint and recycling old stories from last year. Seem to remember a two page spread with pictures of rubbish skips on it. well old news is new news.
Just goes to show that the "education" approach and "providing more bins" is not making a blind bit of difference to the selfish and irresponsible behaviour of many park users. So, enforcement needs to be stepped up.
The problem here lies with the fact our good, hot sunny weather comes so little, perhaps if G.C.C. or should that be "Culture And Sport" were more in tune with the forecasts they'ed be able to provide for busier spells all year around.
But, only putting extra or additional bins out in the most exceptional weather will clearly not catch on in the earlier stages.
I still feel that the provision of bins and recycling facilities must be put in place first.
Fines will just be seen as a huge money spinner by G.C.C. or whoever stands to gain financially from this......
Maybe if people even know the money from their £50 fines was being re-invested into clean ups, and buying in new bins then they might not grudge it as much.
But, give us the re-assurance that the fines will be properly invested and spent on areas that matter - not just drained away in taxation, or used for insignificant, less relevant works.
Posted by: roor06, glasgow on 1:33pm Fri 9 May 08
Keep Glasgow tidy ...
Posted by: Stewie Griffin, Glasgow on 1:48pm Fri 9 May 08
I hate those stupid wee machines that go about [italic]trying[/italic] to pick up litter. They are useless. But I agree that if the bins were emptied more regularly, there may not be such a big problem. The wind was blowing the rubbish out of the bin at the bus stop the other day because it was overflowing.
I hate those stupid wee machines that go about
trying to pick up litter. They are useless. But I agree that if the bins were emptied more regularly, there may not be such a big problem. The wind was blowing the rubbish out of the bin at the bus stop the other day because it was overflowing.
Posted by: People Power on 1:50pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]JH[/bold] wrote:
On a couple of points that need clarified: People Power - CSG has no responsibility for parks - it is the Council - so i'm not sure where you get this misinformation from although i have noted that you frequently do have factual errors in your comments on GCC. Sydney - sorry but the Clean Glasgow approach has always been explicitly clear to those who are genuinely interested in the campaign and therefore are not blindsided to those elements they wish to attack - and that approach has been three-way: awareness raising, improvements to Council services, and enforcement. This is why almost 10,000 community volunteers have participated in Clean Glasgow projects since launch last year. In addition how would you define that the campaign is making a difference? For anyone who is genuinely interested, quantifiable and independent measures are now consistently indicating that the campaign IS making a difference. Problems of this nature need an integrated approach however much of the campaign is not reported in the press. Thanks to those who acknowledge that there is a significant minority in this city who would continue to litter regardless of whatever strategy is put into place. We at GCC Clean Glasgow are fully committed to this campaign for the long haul - despite some of these consipiracy theories that are progressed by people who clearly have too much time on their hands.[/quote]
Okay so there are some misinformed statements on this comments page (and other news stories.)
When we see so many of Glasgows ameneties being put into this (so called) Charitable Trust - its only a matter of time before our Parks are also lumped in with [italic]"Culture & Sport"[/italic]
All I'd ask is if you JH are an employee of Culture And Sport or G.C.C. as your words for them suggest this is the case.
The "Clean Glasgow" initiative could still go alot further, and has a long way to go to get people clearing up their own mess in the longer term. The sporadic, and arranged clean ups of communities may be beneficial in the short term, but how long areas stay clean is another story.
G.C.C. want the good press coverage, but don't want to know enough about the hot spots, and problem areas. Until this changes, and G.C.C. are prepared to work together - ( irrespective of your cynicism of conspiracy theories) - the results will be the same.
So, JH - Its us the people who have to want to see change happen, and cleaner streets, NOT the councillors and politicians enforcing their policies that will see change happen!
Laws, policies, rules and regulations of society are there to be broken.
People must feel passion for their society & community is there to begin with, and they are the ones to implement it - not councillors spouting from their rule books.
JH wrote:
On a couple of points that need clarified: People Power - CSG has no responsibility for parks - it is the Council - so i'm not sure where you get this misinformation from although i have noted that you frequently do have factual errors in your comments on GCC. Sydney - sorry but the Clean Glasgow approach has always been explicitly clear to those who are genuinely interested in the campaign and therefore are not blindsided to those elements they wish to attack - and that approach has been three-way: awareness raising, improvements to Council services, and enforcement. This is why almost 10,000 community volunteers have participated in Clean Glasgow projects since launch last year. In addition how would you define that the campaign is making a difference? For anyone who is genuinely interested, quantifiable and independent measures are now consistently indicating that the campaign IS making a difference. Problems of this nature need an integrated approach however much of the campaign is not reported in the press. Thanks to those who acknowledge that there is a significant minority in this city who would continue to litter regardless of whatever strategy is put into place. We at GCC Clean Glasgow are fully committed to this campaign for the long haul - despite some of these consipiracy theories that are progressed by people who clearly have too much time on their hands.
Okay so there are some misinformed statements on this comments page (and other news stories.)
When we see so many of Glasgows ameneties being put into this (so called) Charitable Trust - its only a matter of time before our Parks are also lumped in with
"Culture & Sport"
All I'd ask is if you JH are an employee of Culture And Sport or G.C.C. as your words for them suggest this is the case.
The "Clean Glasgow" initiative could still go alot further, and has a long way to go to get people clearing up their own mess in the longer term. The sporadic, and arranged clean ups of communities may be beneficial in the short term, but how long areas stay clean is another story.
G.C.C. want the good press coverage, but don't want to know enough about the hot spots, and problem areas. Until this changes, and G.C.C. are prepared to work together - ( irrespective of your cynicism of conspiracy theories) - the results will be the same.
So, JH - Its us the people who have to want to see change happen, and cleaner streets, NOT the councillors and politicians enforcing their policies that will see change happen!
Laws, policies, rules and regulations of society are there to be broken.
People must feel passion for their society & community is there to begin with, and they are the ones to implement it - not councillors spouting from their rule books.
Posted by: Rab Jones, Glasgow on 2:27pm Fri 9 May 08
I agree with people getting fined for dropping litter, but what about rural areas.
Along Braidcraft road in Pollok, people use the bins but the only bins provided are those tiny yellow ones strapped to a lampost. Then the bins end up getting full to the point that the litter at the top of the bin ends up falling off onto the pavement.
Why don't they issue the big concrete bins like they have in the city centre, rather than wasting money on dafty statues that no one looks at?
I agree with people getting fined for dropping litter, but what about rural areas.
Along Braidcraft road in Pollok, people use the bins but the only bins provided are those tiny yellow ones strapped to a lampost. Then the bins end up getting full to the point that the litter at the top of the bin ends up falling off onto the pavement.
Why don't they issue the big concrete bins like they have in the city centre, rather than wasting money on dafty statues that no one looks at?
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 3:10pm Fri 9 May 08
[bold]JH[/bold] wrote:
[quote]For anyone who is genuinely interested, quantifiable and independent measures are now consistently indicating that the campaign IS making a difference.[/quote]
I'm afraid they are NOT, at least NOT according to the vast majority of Evening Times' readers:
ET Poll, 19th February 20008
[italic]Are fines making a difference to the war on litter?[/italic]
Yes: 23%
No: [bold]71%[/bold]
Don't know: 6%
Or are my good, fellow ET readers wrong???
JH wrote:
For anyone who is genuinely interested, quantifiable and independent measures are now consistently indicating that the campaign IS making a difference.
I'm afraid they are NOT, at least NOT according to the vast majority of Evening Times' readers:
ET Poll, 19th February 20008
Are fines making a difference to the war on litter?
Yes: 23%
No:
71%
Don't know: 6%
Or are my good, fellow ET readers wrong???
Posted by: JH, Glasgow on 3:37pm Fri 9 May 08
Final response as have work to do....
People Power - i am project manager of Clean Glasgow and a Council officer. We fully understand and completely agree that this problem will not be solved overnight - after all this is a problem that has built up over decades. But give us a chance - we are trying to do deliver an evolving project over the medium term, in order to bring long term changes.
I couldn't agree with you more that the Council will have no chance of success with this unless we bring the public along with you. We have had every secondary school and most primary schools in the city actively involved so far, as well as the community volunteers and over 700 businesses signed up to the business charter. We are working with other public sector bodies to try and change their behaviours, e.g Network Rail and Amey
What we are trying to do with the campaign is offer communities and other city stakeholders the support and tools they may need to help keep their areas clean. Any group or individual contacting us will receive support. IWe offer a wide range of support, depending on the particular problems facing a street or area. And if cleansing services are not up to scratch, we will deal with it. Anyone can contact me directly at GCC and i will be happy to deal with particular issues relating to Clean Glasgow.
Sydney - i have seen you quote this poll many times. i have not however seen you quote the many other ET polls on Clean Glasgow which reflected in ALL other cases that the public DO predominantly support this campaign.
Having said that, i would not call online polls of this nature representative. When i mentioned independent means of evaluation, i particularly was referring to improvements in national indexes on cleanliness which are carried out by organisations like Keep Scotland Beautiful. For the city, the city centre, and key arterial routes, movement on these indexes since Clean Glasgow was implemented has been steadily upward. We also commissioned a baseline large-scale independent public perception survey which surveyed and interviewed households, individuals and businesses in October 2006 before the campaign launched. We then commissioned a follow up independent evaluation late last year. This demonstrated significant improvements in public perceptions across all indicators.
But we have a long way to go and we are not complacent. It just seems clear to me that to some posters on this forum, nothing would ever be sufficient because for whatever reason you despise GCC and everything that goes along with it.
Finally, to reiterate much of what we are doing is not reported in the press and so I understand that people may think it is only about litter wardens. Equally, there are legal reasons which unfortunately prevent us doing more on restorative justive options i.e. making those responsible do community service.
We are working hard on many issues and we are very grateful to those of you who do support us. In very simple terms, all we are asking is that people use bins and/or take their litter home.
Final response as have work to do....
People Power - i am project manager of Clean Glasgow and a Council officer. We fully understand and completely agree that this problem will not be solved overnight - after all this is a problem that has built up over decades. But give us a chance - we are trying to do deliver an evolving project over the medium term, in order to bring long term changes.
I couldn't agree with you more that the Council will have no chance of success with this unless we bring the public along with you. We have had every secondary school and most primary schools in the city actively involved so far, as well as the community volunteers and over 700 businesses signed up to the business charter. We are working with other public sector bodies to try and change their behaviours, e.g Network Rail and Amey
What we are trying to do with the campaign is offer communities and other city stakeholders the support and tools they may need to help keep their areas clean. Any group or individual contacting us will receive support. IWe offer a wide range of support, depending on the particular problems facing a street or area. And if cleansing services are not up to scratch, we will deal with it. Anyone can contact me directly at GCC and i will be happy to deal with particular issues relating to Clean Glasgow.
Sydney - i have seen you quote this poll many times. i have not however seen you quote the many other ET polls on Clean Glasgow which reflected in ALL other cases that the public DO predominantly support this campaign.
Having said that, i would not call online polls of this nature representative. When i mentioned independent means of evaluation, i particularly was referring to improvements in national indexes on cleanliness which are carried out by organisations like Keep Scotland Beautiful. For the city, the city centre, and key arterial routes, movement on these indexes since Clean Glasgow was implemented has been steadily upward. We also commissioned a baseline large-scale independent public perception survey which surveyed and interviewed households, individuals and businesses in October 2006 before the campaign launched. We then commissioned a follow up independent evaluation late last year. This demonstrated significant improvements in public perceptions across all indicators.
But we have a long way to go and we are not complacent. It just seems clear to me that to some posters on this forum, nothing would ever be sufficient because for whatever reason you despise GCC and everything that goes along with it.
Finally, to reiterate much of what we are doing is not reported in the press and so I understand that people may think it is only about litter wardens. Equally, there are legal reasons which unfortunately prevent us doing more on restorative justive options i.e. making those responsible do community service.
We are working hard on many issues and we are very grateful to those of you who do support us. In very simple terms, all we are asking is that people use bins and/or take their litter home.
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 4:10pm Fri 9 May 08
[italic]Thanks JH for your reply and good luck with your efforts to clean our great city. Hopefully you will be able to do your work free from further high-profile political showboating.[/italic]
Thanks JH for your reply and good luck with your efforts to clean our great city. Hopefully you will be able to do your work free from further high-profile political showboating. Posted by: Tony88, Glasgow on 4:21pm Fri 9 May 08
Why not utilise all those prisoners locked up in their cells for the best part of the day and get them out cleaning the place up, removing graffiti etc. They would then be contributing both to their keep and giving something back to the community.
Why not utilise all those prisoners locked up in their cells for the best part of the day and get them out cleaning the place up, removing graffiti etc. They would then be contributing both to their keep and giving something back to the community.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 4:30pm Fri 9 May 08
I just knew it! The sad fact is that Council employees have shot themselves in the foot so many times over many issues.
So, this "Clean Glasgow" initiative is no different!
It may sound good, proper and the right thing to do.
But, we need the public to come on board, and using the worn out lines of spin & rhetoric in the papers may help the credability of the council through its ardent supporters, but the critics say and see differently.
If JH as you say:
[quote]there are legal reasons which unfortunately prevent us doing more on restorative justive options i.e. making those responsible do community service.[/quote]
Then it is time you worked around these problems, and got the MSP's on board to do their bit with legislation (etc)
I do my bit and support the Clean Glasgow Campaign in theory, but the practice side of it is harder to believe in.
The fact I choose to pick up rubbish others disgard, and remove & recycle glass bottles bears little relevance, or similarities with the clean Glasgow initiative......
Reason being, I do my bit out of pride, installing pride in others to do the same, instead of one off clean ups, and £50 fines from litter wardens is hardly the same thing.
We still have a long way to go to see such a scheme working, and fines may be one answer at hand, but - people must work far harder to find solutions in other ways.....
ie. Re-design bins ( as I've said before) to be less cosmetic in appearance, and more practical in useage.
Bins are no use when people throw rubbish at them on their way past, and miss, due to the hole in the top of them being so small.
Hold a "Design A Bin Competition" with local schools - if kids play their part in designing the city bins to suit them, then maybe we'd see them use them more. Getting kids to use bins because their "cool" ; or "funky" for them to use is the key. They're not child friendly enough.
Final word, people will use bins, but if their design is suited to the needs of those who use them.
I just knew it! The sad fact is that Council employees have shot themselves in the foot so many times over many issues.
So, this "Clean Glasgow" initiative is no different!
It may sound good, proper and the right thing to do.
But, we need the public to come on board, and using the worn out lines of spin & rhetoric in the papers may help the credability of the council through its ardent supporters, but the critics say and see differently.
If JH as you say:
there are legal reasons which unfortunately prevent us doing more on restorative justive options i.e. making those responsible do community service.
Then it is time you worked around these problems, and got the MSP's on board to do their bit with legislation (etc)
I do my bit and support the Clean Glasgow Campaign in theory, but the practice side of it is harder to believe in.
The fact I choose to pick up rubbish others disgard, and remove & recycle glass bottles bears little relevance, or similarities with the clean Glasgow initiative......
Reason being, I do my bit out of pride, installing pride in others to do the same, instead of one off clean ups, and £50 fines from litter wardens is hardly the same thing.
We still have a long way to go to see such a scheme working, and fines may be one answer at hand, but - people must work far harder to find solutions in other ways.....
ie. Re-design bins ( as I've said before) to be less cosmetic in appearance, and more practical in useage.
Bins are no use when people throw rubbish at them on their way past, and miss, due to the hole in the top of them being so small.
Hold a "Design A Bin Competition" with local schools - if kids play their part in designing the city bins to suit them, then maybe we'd see them use them more. Getting kids to use bins because their "cool" ; or "funky" for them to use is the key. They're not child friendly enough.
Final word, people will use bins, but if their design is suited to the needs of those who use them.
Posted by: JH, Glasgow on 4:33pm Fri 9 May 08
Sydney thanks. coming from you - that means a lot.
People Power - we have actually held a Design-a-bin competition, managed by the Lighthouse, with about 12 secondary schools involved, with the winning design now in production by Broxap bin manufacturers.
We ARE working extremely hard to change legislation.
As i said, not everything we do is reported in the press.
Next???
Sydney thanks. coming from you - that means a lot.
People Power - we have actually held a Design-a-bin competition, managed by the Lighthouse, with about 12 secondary schools involved, with the winning design now in production by Broxap bin manufacturers.
We ARE working extremely hard to change legislation.
As i said, not everything we do is reported in the press.
Next???
Posted by: roor06, glasgow on 5:01pm Fri 9 May 08
I welcome a new design on the bin theory ...
Present bins are unfreindly and hard to put discarded waste into ...
I welcome a new design on the bin theory ...
Present bins are unfreindly and hard to put discarded waste into ...
Posted by: Tony on 5:41pm Fri 9 May 08
My wife was in the park yesterday and said they have put in a whole lot new bins. Now we know why. All this tripe about "louts" throwing their rubbish about in the park was because there simply wasn't enough bins in the first place. Purcell should hansel one of them by dumping himself in it, by public demand.
My wife was in the park yesterday and said they have put in a whole lot new bins. Now we know why. All this tripe about "louts" throwing their rubbish about in the park was because there simply wasn't enough bins in the first place. Purcell should hansel one of them by dumping himself in it, by public demand.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 6:55pm Fri 9 May 08
Nice one Tony,
The fact that failings are almost always reported in the media as being of our doing, as the electorate never our councillors says it all.
Also, JH - I hope to see these re-designed bins shortly on our city streets and being used vigorously, and with pride.....but people have to want to change their ways, no amount of legislation can do that.
The tactics we use to "Clean Glasgow" must be more imaginative, and creative and less beurocratic and costly.
The need for so many tiers of the council, and Government to decide on areas such as this seems futile and time wasting when really action speaks louder than words.
I just hope to see more action from more than just litter wardens, street sweepers, bin men and cleansing dept staff.
Time to hand responsibility over to us - the general public, and do it in a way which will be sustained, and long lasting.
Give us that chance to prove our worth,
and put a hold on the littering fines.
Or, maybe getting money from us in whatever way it can is the only way that G.C.C. knows how to respond, or act. I hope not!
Nice one Tony,
The fact that failings are almost always reported in the media as being of our doing, as the electorate never our councillors says it all.
Also, JH - I hope to see these re-designed bins shortly on our city streets and being used vigorously, and with pride.....but people have to want to change their ways, no amount of legislation can do that.
The tactics we use to "Clean Glasgow" must be more imaginative, and creative and less beurocratic and costly.
The need for so many tiers of the council, and Government to decide on areas such as this seems futile and time wasting when really action speaks louder than words.
I just hope to see more action from more than just litter wardens, street sweepers, bin men and cleansing dept staff.
Time to hand responsibility over to us - the general public, and do it in a way which will be sustained, and long lasting.
Give us that chance to prove our worth,
and put a hold on the littering fines.
Or, maybe getting money from us in whatever way it can is the only way that G.C.C. knows how to respond, or act. I hope not!
Posted by: tam-m, southside on 7:44pm Fri 9 May 08
they should only allow people into these parks in their underwear with no bags allowed then they would not make a mess .
they would also benefit from GOOD TAN.
they should only allow people into these parks in their underwear with no bags allowed then they would not make a mess .
they would also benefit from GOOD TAN.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 8:12pm Fri 9 May 08
The other area is utilising the Park Keepers - who could be doing a dual job of supervision of the public, with a caution given on littering offences, before the litter warden is called upon, or radio'd by them ?
And, of course their duties of overseeing the parks & our "Dear Green Space" while it remains intact, and free of developers - (i.e. in the case of Pollok Park - "Go Ape!")
The other area is utilising the Park Keepers - who could be doing a dual job of supervision of the public, with a caution given on littering offences, before the litter warden is called upon, or radio'd by them ?
And, of course their duties of overseeing the parks & our "Dear Green Space" while it remains intact, and free of developers - (i.e. in the case of Pollok Park - "Go Ape!")
Posted by: tam-m, southside on 8:21pm Fri 9 May 08
got to disagree with you people power my idea is better and cheaper and more appeasing to the natural beauty of our parks.
got to disagree with you people power my idea is better and cheaper and more appeasing to the natural beauty of our parks.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 8:45pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]tam-m[/bold] wrote:
they should only allow people into these parks in their underwear with no bags allowed then they would not make a mess . they would also benefit from GOOD TAN.[/quote]
Ahhhh - naturism at its best - can't imagine Glasgwegian naturism and beauty being in the same sentence, never mind anything else.
The guys especially in trim are ten a penny, and their manb00bs are sadly a reflection of where we're at today.
That aside, how about a GOOD TANNING, with the birch, or belt, for those constant offenders.
Also cheaper, a right good can of worms to open up.
tam-m wrote:
they should only allow people into these parks in their underwear with no bags allowed then they would not make a mess . they would also benefit from GOOD TAN.
Ahhhh - naturism at its best - can't imagine Glasgwegian naturism and beauty being in the same sentence, never mind anything else.
The guys especially in trim are ten a penny, and their manb00bs are sadly a reflection of where we're at today.
That aside, how about a GOOD TANNING, with the birch, or belt, for those constant offenders.
Also cheaper, a right good can of worms to open up.
Posted by: JH, Glasgow on 11:11pm Fri 9 May 08
home now after a long day at work and feel it worth pointing out that i am not a member of any political party and i am a Glasweigan and love this city.
if only it was so easy to get staff to take on work outwith their contracts but sadly it's not - however it's another thing we're working on - i.e. the dual or multi tasking of Council employees.
Constructive criticism and good ideas for this campaign are definitely welcomed and there is so much i'd like to highlight we are doing with the campaign, however if People Power reads above you can see a wide variety of opinion from more enforcement to less enforcement to more bins to fewer bins, to more cleansing staff to fewer cleansing staff, etc etc.
no matter what we do or how we do it, we cannot please everyone.
sad fact is there IS this significant minority who don't give a toss about dropping their litter even if it's right next to a bin.
finally, i'm not here to speak for the Council - but i do know that the corporate priority put on this project is genuine, and regardless of the Council bashing posters we at Clean Glasgow will continue to try and make a sustainable change to the city's environment.
thank you, good night and here's hoping the sun's out tomorrow. Happy weekend all.
home now after a long day at work and feel it worth pointing out that i am not a member of any political party and i am a Glasweigan and love this city.
if only it was so easy to get staff to take on work outwith their contracts but sadly it's not - however it's another thing we're working on - i.e. the dual or multi tasking of Council employees.
Constructive criticism and good ideas for this campaign are definitely welcomed and there is so much i'd like to highlight we are doing with the campaign, however if People Power reads above you can see a wide variety of opinion from more enforcement to less enforcement to more bins to fewer bins, to more cleansing staff to fewer cleansing staff, etc etc.
no matter what we do or how we do it, we cannot please everyone.
sad fact is there IS this significant minority who don't give a toss about dropping their litter even if it's right next to a bin.
finally, i'm not here to speak for the Council - but i do know that the corporate priority put on this project is genuine, and regardless of the Council bashing posters we at Clean Glasgow will continue to try and make a sustainable change to the city's environment.
thank you, good night and here's hoping the sun's out tomorrow. Happy weekend all.
Posted by: I Predict A Riot, Glasgow on 2:11am Sat 10 May 08
Quote:if only it was so easy to get staff to take on work outwith their contracts but sadly it's not - however it's another thing we're working on - i.e. the dual or multi tasking of Council employees.
How can you ask staff to take on work outwith their contracts,no insurance cover in the event of an accident surely.
Quote:if only it was so easy to get staff to take on work outwith their contracts but sadly it's not - however it's another thing we're working on - i.e. the dual or multi tasking of Council employees.
How can you ask staff to take on work outwith their contracts,no insurance cover in the event of an accident surely.
Posted by: Frank, Glasgow on 1:55pm Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]JH[/bold] wrote:
home now after a long day at work and feel it worth pointing out that i am not a member of any political party and i am a Glasweigan and love this city.
if only it was so easy to get staff to take on work outwith their contracts but sadly it's not - however it's another thing we're working on - i.e. the dual or multi tasking of Council employees.
Constructive criticism and good ideas for this campaign are definitely welcomed and there is so much i'd like to highlight we are doing with the campaign, however if People Power reads above you can see a wide variety of opinion from more enforcement to less enforcement to more bins to fewer bins, to more cleansing staff to fewer cleansing staff, etc etc.
no matter what we do or how we do it, we cannot please everyone.
sad fact is there IS this significant minority who don't give a toss about dropping their litter even if it's right next to a bin.
finally, i'm not here to speak for the Council - but i do know that the corporate priority put on this project is genuine, and regardless of the Council bashing posters we at Clean Glasgow will continue to try and make a sustainable change to the city's environment.
thank you, good night and here's hoping the sun's out tomorrow. Happy weekend all.
[/quote] Your points are well made and the Labour Council has got it finger on the pulse on this issue and delivering for Glasgow.
You tend to find these people from that minority sadly come from the scum estates of our city. How we tackle them will be difficult as these are the people that turned places like the Gorbals and Easterhouse into what they became. The liberal nationalists on here want to give them tea and sympathy while Labour are tackling them.
JH wrote:
home now after a long day at work and feel it worth pointing out that i am not a member of any political party and i am a Glasweigan and love this city.
if only it was so easy to get staff to take on work outwith their contracts but sadly it's not - however it's another thing we're working on - i.e. the dual or multi tasking of Council employees.
Constructive criticism and good ideas for this campaign are definitely welcomed and there is so much i'd like to highlight we are doing with the campaign, however if People Power reads above you can see a wide variety of opinion from more enforcement to less enforcement to more bins to fewer bins, to more cleansing staff to fewer cleansing staff, etc etc.
no matter what we do or how we do it, we cannot please everyone.
sad fact is there IS this significant minority who don't give a toss about dropping their litter even if it's right next to a bin.
finally, i'm not here to speak for the Council - but i do know that the corporate priority put on this project is genuine, and regardless of the Council bashing posters we at Clean Glasgow will continue to try and make a sustainable change to the city's environment.
thank you, good night and here's hoping the sun's out tomorrow. Happy weekend all.
Your points are well made and the Labour Council has got it finger on the pulse on this issue and delivering for Glasgow.
You tend to find these people from that minority sadly come from the scum estates of our city. How we tackle them will be difficult as these are the people that turned places like the Gorbals and Easterhouse into what they became. The liberal nationalists on here want to give them tea and sympathy while Labour are tackling them.
Posted by: Dave2007, Glasgow on 4:43pm Sat 10 May 08
Irrespective of whether Glasgow City council is good or bad everyone should not drop or dump litter.
Some people simply have no interest in being educated and fines might just work on them. I certaintly agree fines should be used.
Just like the people who come on the buses and light cigarettes or open bottles of Buckfast or cans of Lager and then become quite abusive when they are requested to put the fag out or stop drinking I look forward to the day when Security or Police come on to the buses and remove this scum.
Why would any sensible person want to get themselves a fine for littering ?
Irrespective of whether Glasgow City council is good or bad everyone should not drop or dump litter.
Some people simply have no interest in being educated and fines might just work on them. I certaintly agree fines should be used.
Just like the people who come on the buses and light cigarettes or open bottles of Buckfast or cans of Lager and then become quite abusive when they are requested to put the fag out or stop drinking I look forward to the day when Security or Police come on to the buses and remove this scum.
Why would any sensible person want to get themselves a fine for littering ?
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 11:10pm Sat 10 May 08
Might I also point out or add that from what I have been told, bus drivers are told that should an abusive passenger board their bus, their priority is still to ensure they are running to timetable - schedule.
IS that not just typical of First buses.
Never mind the passengers who may be getting verbally abused, as long as the bus is on time!
What kind of sick or twisted logic is that ?
Yes, the company may be fined = but surely passenger safety should come far higher too.
GEtting back to the littering issue - I have to disagree with JH of G.C.C. in what he says:
[quote]from more enforcement to less enforcement to more bins to fewer bins, to more cleansing staff to fewer cleansing staff, etc etc.[/quote]
I cannot imagine, not see the sense in anybody advocating for fewer bins, nor fewer cleansing staff, despite this being a supposed example.
G.C.C. wants to cut costs, corners and budgets at every opportunity, and giving it the means, or say so to do just that is a disservice to the people of Glasgow.
G.C.C. and its "Clean Glasgow" initiative must play their part in educating the public and empowering them to do their bit in their communities. Provision of litter pickers to those who wish them more readily would be just one suggestion.
But, this should not be a them and us scenario, where the council does so much and lets us the public do the rest. As payed employees representatives and elected members many council employees have a role to play, and that should not be watered down, or trivialised. We see enough skiving in other public sectors - without this area falling victim to it also.
This should be about the council and electorate forming a working partnership, and coalition, and the evidence of what council staff and officials, councillors etc are doing must be clear to see. Otherwise why vote them in ?
Might I also point out or add that from what I have been told, bus drivers are told that should an abusive passenger board their bus, their priority is still to ensure they are running to timetable - schedule.
IS that not just typical of First buses.
Never mind the passengers who may be getting verbally abused, as long as the bus is on time!
What kind of sick or twisted logic is that ?
Yes, the company may be fined = but surely passenger safety should come far higher too.
GEtting back to the littering issue - I have to disagree with JH of G.C.C. in what he says:
from more enforcement to less enforcement to more bins to fewer bins, to more cleansing staff to fewer cleansing staff, etc etc.
I cannot imagine, not see the sense in anybody advocating for fewer bins, nor fewer cleansing staff, despite this being a supposed example.
G.C.C. wants to cut costs, corners and budgets at every opportunity, and giving it the means, or say so to do just that is a disservice to the people of Glasgow.
G.C.C. and its "Clean Glasgow" initiative must play their part in educating the public and empowering them to do their bit in their communities. Provision of litter pickers to those who wish them more readily would be just one suggestion.
But, this should not be a them and us scenario, where the council does so much and lets us the public do the rest. As payed employees representatives and elected members many council employees have a role to play, and that should not be watered down, or trivialised. We see enough skiving in other public sectors - without this area falling victim to it also.
This should be about the council and electorate forming a working partnership, and coalition, and the evidence of what council staff and officials, councillors etc are doing must be clear to see. Otherwise why vote them in ?
Posted by: Ronnie Cee, West End on 1:15pm Mon 12 May 08
At times it's difficult to take some of the contributors to these debates seriously.
Concillors names are trotted out, percentage figures are bandied about. Outraged Glaswegians who don't live here in the West End decry citizens who do.
The Facts: Ignorant, ill-bred nonentities (who, unfortunately will always be with us) pollute our streets, parks and amusement areas with scant regard for decent citizens. They drop litter without thinking of consequences, e.g, who cleans it up after them? They don't buy newspapers because they cant read, so they can't even become involved in these debates.
Get real. The problem is the ignorant litter lots and NOT the Councillors. The problem is the litter louts and not columnists who spout percentahges at us.
Get it? The problem is the scumbag who drops the litter!!!!!!!! they will always be with us because they lack any sort of breeding, discernment and intelligence.
Why blame anyone or anything else?
At times it's difficult to take some of the contributors to these debates seriously.
Concillors names are trotted out, percentage figures are bandied about. Outraged Glaswegians who don't live here in the West End decry citizens who do.
The Facts: Ignorant, ill-bred nonentities (who, unfortunately will always be with us) pollute our streets, parks and amusement areas with scant regard for decent citizens. They drop litter without thinking of consequences, e.g, who cleans it up after them? They don't buy newspapers because they cant read, so they can't even become involved in these debates.
Get real. The problem is the ignorant litter lots and NOT the Councillors. The problem is the litter louts and not columnists who spout percentahges at us.
Get it? The problem is the scumbag who drops the litter!!!!!!!! they will always be with us because they lack any sort of breeding, discernment and intelligence.
Why blame anyone or anything else?
Posted by: theopinionatedguru, Glasgow on 3:49pm Mon 12 May 08
Glasgow has to get serious about the "punishment" handed out to litterers. Its no good dishing out fines, many just wont pay them, and those who do pay feel nothing more than a short term financial loss and a lingering resentment.
Everyone caught littering (including kids) should be forced to spend a couple of days picking up garbage at Glasgows worst "litter blackspots"
Glasgow has to get serious about the "punishment" handed out to litterers. Its no good dishing out fines, many just wont pay them, and those who do pay feel nothing more than a short term financial loss and a lingering resentment.
Everyone caught littering (including kids) should be forced to spend a couple of days picking up garbage at Glasgows worst "litter blackspots"
Posted by: George Brown, glasgow on 9:51pm Mon 12 May 08
If 'clutter and spot' provided enough bins the problem could be reduced, also since people won't go to the bin why not have the bin go to the people. With a little inventiveness why don't they try patrols with a tricycle (like the old fashioned ice-cream vendors) and by stopping near small groups their presence might encourage use of the facility
If 'clutter and spot' provided enough bins the problem could be reduced, also since people won't go to the bin why not have the bin go to the people. With a little inventiveness why don't they try patrols with a tricycle (like the old fashioned ice-cream vendors) and by stopping near small groups their presence might encourage use of the facility
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