Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 11:15am Tue 24 Jun 08
[quote]Local councillor Gordon Matheson welcomed the new hotel plan. He said: "I warmly welcome this proposal because there has been a gap site there for long enough.[/quote]
Would these sentiments also apply to the massive gap site held by Selfridges, which is undermining ALL other efforts in the Merchant City, or [bold]is Mr Matheson quite happy to continue to ignore the most important gap site in the whole of Glasgow[/bold] (apart from the council's credibility gap that is).
Back to the story: exactly what 'gap' in the luxury tourist market are we talking about here? Official figures for the last two months show [bold]hotel occupancy in Glasgow down[/bold]... and this fall is the biggest fall of any city in Scotland. The luxury end of this dwindling market has been worst affected; maybe the developers should consider taking the '[italic]Elphinstone option[/italic]' and announcing a 'delay' while they reconsider their options in light of a significant and considerable [bold]downturn in Glasgow's struggling tourism industry[/bold].
Local councillor Gordon Matheson welcomed the new hotel plan. He said: "I warmly welcome this proposal because there has been a gap site there for long enough.
Would these sentiments also apply to the massive gap site held by Selfridges, which is undermining ALL other efforts in the Merchant City, or
is Mr Matheson quite happy to continue to ignore the most important gap site in the whole of Glasgow (apart from the council's credibility gap that is).
Back to the story: exactly what 'gap' in the luxury tourist market are we talking about here? Official figures for the last two months show
hotel occupancy in Glasgow down... and this fall is the biggest fall of any city in Scotland. The luxury end of this dwindling market has been worst affected; maybe the developers should consider taking the '
Elphinstone option' and announcing a 'delay' while they reconsider their options in light of a significant and considerable
downturn in Glasgow's struggling tourism industry.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 11:20am Tue 24 Jun 08
Considering that there is overprovision of Hotels in Glasgow, and that this hasnt benefitted Glasgow (eg: unemployment figures not lower, no improvement inGlaswrgians lives etc) to me this smacks of Glasgow council scraping the barrel. Consdering that Edinburghs hotlels have startted to have lower occupancy rates due to thre global reccession building more souless empty hotles is not the answer. In ten years time a lot of hotels will be used has homeless hotels. And that Glasgow is not a tourist playground. [bold]Glasgow is not a tourist city.[/bold]
Considering that there is overprovision of Hotels in Glasgow, and that this hasnt benefitted Glasgow (eg: unemployment figures not lower, no improvement inGlaswrgians lives etc) to me this smacks of Glasgow council scraping the barrel. Consdering that Edinburghs hotlels have startted to have lower occupancy rates due to thre global reccession building more souless empty hotles is not the answer. In ten years time a lot of hotels will be used has homeless hotels. And that Glasgow is not a tourist playground.
Glasgow is not a tourist city. Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 11:39am Tue 24 Jun 08
We're only talking plannign permission here, not construction.
Syd, can you show those "official figures"?
Meep, unemployment figures in Glasgow are lower than a few years ago. You have no evidence to back up your bizarre obsession. Presumably you don't go on holiday yourself.
We're only talking plannign permission here, not construction.
Syd, can you show those "official figures"?
Meep, unemployment figures in Glasgow are lower than a few years ago. You have no evidence to back up your bizarre obsession. Presumably you don't go on holiday yourself.
Posted by: RapidAssistant, Glasgow on 11:44am Tue 24 Jun 08
Would anyone have dared building a luxury hotel or a fancy office block in Glasgow 30-40 years ago??? Not a chance.
The fact that developers continue to WANT to build prestigious things here must say something about how much the city has improved overall. And if we don't have any manufacturing industry left to generate wealth internally, then it has to come from outside....and we need an infrastructure (hotels, office blocks and dare I say it yuppie flats) to attract and sustain it.
The attitude that Glasgow isn't good enough or can't be made better only serves to perpetuate all the negative images of the city both in Scotland and south of the border.
Isn't keeping local people in a job both building and then staffing these developments a good thing????
Would anyone have dared building a luxury hotel or a fancy office block in Glasgow 30-40 years ago??? Not a chance.
The fact that developers continue to WANT to build prestigious things here must say something about how much the city has improved overall. And if we don't have any manufacturing industry left to generate wealth internally, then it has to come from outside....and we need an infrastructure (hotels, office blocks and dare I say it yuppie flats) to attract and sustain it.
The attitude that Glasgow isn't good enough or can't be made better only serves to perpetuate all the negative images of the city both in Scotland and south of the border.
Isn't keeping local people in a job both building and then staffing these developments a good thing????
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 12:01pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Just to take up some of rapidassistants points: the "yuppie flats " you mention are lying empty as we speak. A lot of those flats are not finding owneres and are ending up in the hands of buy to let scum. 2: "Wealth generated" for whom exactly? The tourism industry has had a good 2 decades of selling and promoting Glasgow to the world and for the most part this hasnt helped or benfitted Glasgow or its population.All it has done is make the city more hostile and angry towards to travellers who come into the city and parade about it. Again where is th4e benefit financially or socially to Glasgow? There hasnt been any. The reason i keep taking shots at tourism "glaswegian" Brad, is that the Council , the politicans, and the ET editorial dont have any alternatives to help the people of Glasgow, and keep spouting the lie that tourism is some sort of universal panacea that is going to "cure" Glasgow. It isnt and it wont. When the tourism figures fall over the next 4 years (and they will) what are they going to tell Glasgow? Glasgow needs something more stable and substantial than stag nights, sex tourists, and creepy photographers taking pictures of shoppers on Buchanan street. Glasgow is better than that.
Just to take up some of rapidassistants points: the "yuppie flats " you mention are lying empty as we speak. A lot of those flats are not finding owneres and are ending up in the hands of buy to let scum. 2: "Wealth generated" for whom exactly? The tourism industry has had a good 2 decades of selling and promoting Glasgow to the world and for the most part this hasnt helped or benfitted Glasgow or its population.All it has done is make the city more hostile and angry towards to travellers who come into the city and parade about it. Again where is th4e benefit financially or socially to Glasgow? There hasnt been any. The reason i keep taking shots at tourism "glaswegian" Brad, is that the Council , the politicans, and the ET editorial dont have any alternatives to help the people of Glasgow, and keep spouting the lie that tourism is some sort of universal panacea that is going to "cure" Glasgow. It isnt and it wont. When the tourism figures fall over the next 4 years (and they will) what are they going to tell Glasgow? Glasgow needs something more stable and substantial than stag nights, sex tourists, and creepy photographers taking pictures of shoppers on Buchanan street. Glasgow is better than that.
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 12:12pm Tue 24 Jun 08
"Wealth generated" for whom exactly?" - well, for the people who build these places; who work in them; the restaurants, bars, transport providers (etc etc) who also receive tourist spend (as well as from the wages of staff).
"the city more hostile and angry towards to travellers" - evidence?
"tourism is some sort of universal panacea" - who says that? Where is the evidence? I thought the city was pursuing other avenues too.
"Glasgow needs something more stable and substantial" - and what is that?
"sex tourists" - give us a break...
"Wealth generated" for whom exactly?" - well, for the people who build these places; who work in them; the restaurants, bars, transport providers (etc etc) who also receive tourist spend (as well as from the wages of staff).
"the city more hostile and angry towards to travellers" - evidence?
"tourism is some sort of universal panacea" - who says that? Where is the evidence? I thought the city was pursuing other avenues too.
"Glasgow needs something more stable and substantial" - and what is that?
"sex tourists" - give us a break...
Posted by: Southsider71, Newton Mearns, Glasgow on 12:35pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Nice to see all of these new buildings going ahead, hopefully some of them will actually turn out as intended and not be scuttled by cost over runs and delays...but this being Scotland, I guess thats simply not possible. As for Selfridges, what is happening there ?, place is an eyesore. As for the stag nights and creepy photographers, if the city is really that bad, would any of them be here at all ? and as for sex tourists, that something Glasgow doesnt need, as we seem to be the arse end of Scotland if certain east coast newspapers are anything to go by...
Nice to see all of these new buildings going ahead, hopefully some of them will actually turn out as intended and not be scuttled by cost over runs and delays...but this being Scotland, I guess thats simply not possible. As for Selfridges, what is happening there ?, place is an eyesore. As for the stag nights and creepy photographers, if the city is really that bad, would any of them be here at all ? and as for sex tourists, that something Glasgow doesnt need, as we seem to be the arse end of Scotland if certain east coast newspapers are anything to go by...
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 12:41pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Not sure it's going ahead, Southsider71, it's just planning permissison. There are quite a few of those floating about for hotels at the moment with not much sign of activity. But fingers crossed...
Not sure it's going ahead, Southsider71, it's just planning permissison. There are quite a few of those floating about for hotels at the moment with not much sign of activity. But fingers crossed...
Posted by: aeu99217, Cessnock on 12:57pm Tue 24 Jun 08
sydney, whenever anything positive is written about Glasgow or its inhabitants you immediately attempt to bring it down with anecdotal or hastily gathered, but little understood quantitative, evidence. Fine if you want to be some sort of psuedo confused class warrior but keep your pessimism to yourself and your generation: you're bringing us young ones down.
As for meep and his alleged sex tourists? Have you seen how many chippies there are in Glasgow? If the city caters to any sex tourists it must be in the BBW end of the market!
sydney, whenever anything positive is written about Glasgow or its inhabitants you immediately attempt to bring it down with anecdotal or hastily gathered, but little understood quantitative, evidence. Fine if you want to be some sort of psuedo confused class warrior but keep your pessimism to yourself and your generation: you're bringing us young ones down.
As for meep and his alleged sex tourists? Have you seen how many chippies there are in Glasgow? If the city caters to any sex tourists it must be in the BBW end of the market!
Posted by: RapidAssistant, Glasgow on 1:03pm Tue 24 Jun 08
All I will say is that this destructive attitude of this-is-the-way-it-i
s-so-there-is-no-poi
nt-of-doing-anything
-about-it is what holds Glasgow (and the whole of Scotland) back.
Like it or lump it - Glasgow has become a service based economy - and it is true that it is becoming more and more like London - i.e a "those-that-have-it-
and-those-that-don't
" city.
And I don't see any easy way of changing that either.
The responsibility for improving it lies with everyone. But a lot of the so called "ned scum" in Glasgow are wholly responsible for their own situations and have no aspiration to improve it either. Without singling out any area, the housing estates of the 60s were indeed blighted by poor design, wrong location, shoddy construction etc etc, but ultimately it was the PEOPLE who turned them into ghettos.
As far as tourism is concerned - type in "Glasgow Vacation" or "Holiday Glasgow"into YouTube and just see what a big variety of nationalities have been here and enjoyed themselves.......
All I will say is that this destructive attitude of this-is-the-way-it-i
s-so-there-is-no-poi
nt-of-doing-anything
-about-it is what holds Glasgow (and the whole of Scotland) back.
Like it or lump it - Glasgow has become a service based economy - and it is true that it is becoming more and more like London - i.e a "those-that-have-it-
and-those-that-don't
" city.
And I don't see any easy way of changing that either.
The responsibility for improving it lies with everyone. But a lot of the so called "ned scum" in Glasgow are wholly responsible for their own situations and have no aspiration to improve it either. Without singling out any area, the housing estates of the 60s were indeed blighted by poor design, wrong location, shoddy construction etc etc, but ultimately it was the PEOPLE who turned them into ghettos.
As far as tourism is concerned - type in "Glasgow Vacation" or "Holiday Glasgow"into YouTube and just see what a big variety of nationalities have been here and enjoyed themselves.......
Posted by: debbie, glasgow, glasgow on 1:16pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Meep get lost, Glasgow doesnt need your negative attitude.
Where have you been living, Glasgow IS a tourist city. Are you blind????!!!!
Meep get lost, Glasgow doesnt need your negative attitude.
Where have you been living, Glasgow IS a tourist city. Are you blind????!!!!
Posted by: Southsider71, Glasgow on 1:36pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Even planning permission is a positive thing Brad, Like Debbie, i find the negativity towards the city strange and while agreeing that Glasgow isnt in the same league for tourism as the likes of Edinburgh, it has to do its best to attract tourists. If nothing else, it will help boost the local economy until an alternative is hopefully found. Might persuade the council to help clean the city up aswell, maybe by starting with the whole labour administration resigning and letting somebody else have a go...
Even planning permission is a positive thing Brad, Like Debbie, i find the negativity towards the city strange and while agreeing that Glasgow isnt in the same league for tourism as the likes of Edinburgh, it has to do its best to attract tourists. If nothing else, it will help boost the local economy until an alternative is hopefully found. Might persuade the council to help clean the city up aswell, maybe by starting with the whole labour administration resigning and letting somebody else have a go...
Posted by: 6pence, glasgow on 2:17pm Tue 24 Jun 08
I don't know where Sydney and Meep get their statistics from, but i work for an international company with a base in Glasgow, we have a need on a regular basis for hotel accomodation for travelling directors from different countries and I can assure you on several occasions, quite regularly in fact there are no hotel rooms to be had in the city so i think there is a need for more hotels. I also know that our counterparts in our other offices around the world all love travelling to Glasgow and travel here even when not on business so I do not agree we are not a tourist city and think it's narrow minded people, who don't get out much and live in the real city, that thinks these contunually negative thoughts.
I don't know where Sydney and Meep get their statistics from, but i work for an international company with a base in Glasgow, we have a need on a regular basis for hotel accomodation for travelling directors from different countries and I can assure you on several occasions, quite regularly in fact there are no hotel rooms to be had in the city so i think there is a need for more hotels. I also know that our counterparts in our other offices around the world all love travelling to Glasgow and travel here even when not on business so I do not agree we are not a tourist city and think it's narrow minded people, who don't get out much and live in the real city, that thinks these contunually negative thoughts.
Posted by: commonsense, Glasogw on 2:31pm Tue 24 Jun 08
I just dont know where meep/syd get their figures from and how they choose to use them is something else!
I work in the apparently failing luxury hotel market and my partner in the budget hotel market and both our hotels are thriving! We actually had higher occupancy in january than we did in the traditionaly busy month of december and have been above target eversince - unlike our counterparts in other cities.
As well as this as someone on the frontline of glasgows tourist industry I can only say that it is not only business men who stay with us but holiday makers, travelling football fans and people on weekend breaks - all of whom love glasgow and many return.
I just dont know where meep/syd get their figures from and how they choose to use them is something else!
I work in the apparently failing luxury hotel market and my partner in the budget hotel market and both our hotels are thriving! We actually had higher occupancy in january than we did in the traditionaly busy month of december and have been above target eversince - unlike our counterparts in other cities.
As well as this as someone on the frontline of glasgows tourist industry I can only say that it is not only business men who stay with us but holiday makers, travelling football fans and people on weekend breaks - all of whom love glasgow and many return.
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 2:47pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Okay, I've given you misery hunters enough time to moan amongst yourselves... here's some quantitative data:
Acknowledged industry benchmark, STR Global's HotelBenchmark recent survey by Deloitte, shows Glasgow's all-important revenue per available room falling, while it rises elsewhere across UK:
[quote]"While cities such as Manchester (-3.9 per cent), [bold]Glasgow (-1.2 per cent)[/bold], Cardiff (-7.5) and Birmingham (-5.8 per cent) are registering revPAR declines, Belfast hotels outperformed even London with a +7.4 per cent increase. Only [bold]Liverpool was better at +8.4 per cent[/bold]."[/quote]
Our very won leading, and much-respected by Sydney Meriwether, local newspaper, the ET, last month on 26/05/08:
[quote]A new survey shows [bold]the city (Glasgow) was worst-hit in the UK during March as the number of full rooms fell by 8.4%[/bold].
In Scotland as a whole bookings were down 5.3%.
The report on hotel occupancy was published by business advisers PKF and based on a survey of more than 300 three and four-star establishments across the UK.[/quote]
So that's independent accounts PKF saying occupancy is down by 8.4% and independent auditors Deloitte going further and saying that the crucial revPAR is also falling by 1.2%!
[italic]How'd do you like them apples readers?[/italic]
Okay, I've given you misery hunters enough time to moan amongst yourselves... here's some quantitative data:
Acknowledged industry benchmark, STR Global's HotelBenchmark recent survey by Deloitte, shows Glasgow's all-important revenue per available room falling, while it rises elsewhere across UK:
"While cities such as Manchester (-3.9 per cent), Glasgow (-1.2 per cent), Cardiff (-7.5) and Birmingham (-5.8 per cent) are registering revPAR declines, Belfast hotels outperformed even London with a +7.4 per cent increase. Only Liverpool was better at +8.4 per cent."
Our very won leading, and much-respected by Sydney Meriwether, local newspaper, the ET, last month on 26/05/08:
A new survey shows the city (Glasgow) was worst-hit in the UK during March as the number of full rooms fell by 8.4%.
In Scotland as a whole bookings were down 5.3%.
The report on hotel occupancy was published by business advisers PKF and based on a survey of more than 300 three and four-star establishments across the UK.
So that's independent accounts PKF saying occupancy is down by 8.4% and independent auditors Deloitte going further and saying that the crucial revPAR is also falling by 1.2%!
How'd do you like them apples readers?
Posted by: Joe Shmo, Glasgow on 3:19pm Tue 24 Jun 08
I dunno about you guys but all my time of living in glasgow (38 years ) the city centres always been a shLthole. somesones gotta take blame..
I dunno about you guys but all my time of living in glasgow (38 years ) the city centres always been a shLthole. somesones gotta take blame..
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 3:23pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Typically disingenuous use of statistics: one or two months taken out of context... The ET article also includes, "Alastair Rae, from PKF, said 2007 was a record year for hotels in Scotland and added it was inevitable that figures in 2008 might not always compare well."
As for the STR, -1.2% is insignificant (and better than Manchester, Birmingham and Cardiff). Of course Liverpool has done better, it's the 2008 City of Culture!
Typically disingenuous use of statistics: one or two months taken out of context... The ET article also includes, "Alastair Rae, from PKF, said 2007 was a record year for hotels in Scotland and added it was inevitable that figures in 2008 might not always compare well."
As for the STR, -1.2% is insignificant (and better than Manchester, Birmingham and Cardiff). Of course Liverpool has done better, it's the 2008 City of Culture!
Posted by: Big Al, Glasgow on 3:37pm Tue 24 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Sydney Meriwether[/bold] wrote:
Okay, I've given you misery hunters enough time to moan amongst yourselves... here's some quantitative data:
Acknowledged industry benchmark, STR Global's HotelBenchmark recent survey by Deloitte, shows Glasgow's all-important revenue per available room falling, while it rises elsewhere across UK:
[quote]"While cities such as Manchester (-3.9 per cent), [bold]Glasgow (-1.2 per cent)[/bold], Cardiff (-7.5) and Birmingham (-5.8 per cent) are registering revPAR declines, Belfast hotels outperformed even London with a +7.4 per cent increase. Only [bold]Liverpool was better at +8.4 per cent[/bold]."[/quote]
Our very won leading, and much-respected by Sydney Meriwether, local newspaper, the ET, last month on 26/05/08:
[quote]A new survey shows [bold]the city (Glasgow) was worst-hit in the UK during March as the number of full rooms fell by 8.4%[/bold].
In Scotland as a whole bookings were down 5.3%.
The report on hotel occupancy was published by business advisers PKF and based on a survey of more than 300 three and four-star establishments across the UK.[/quote]
So that's independent accounts PKF saying occupancy is down by 8.4% and independent auditors Deloitte going further and saying that the crucial revPAR is also falling by 1.2%!
[italic]How'd do you like them apples readers?[/italic]
[/quote] Regarding the revPAR figure, based on the HotelBenchmark, Glasgow is actually outperformed the industry average for regional hotels. The industry (outside London) suffered a 1.3% decline. (in comparison to 1.2% for Glasgow).
Also, if you wish to use Liverpool as a comparison, you may wish to use Deloitte's explanation:
[quote]Hotels in Liverpool are benefiting from the city being the European Capital of Culture 2008, with a host of festivals and events driving more tourists into the city[/quote]
Presumably, we will also benefit when the Commonwealth Games come to Glasgow. (Oh yeah, you prefer to use the derogatory name 'Diddy Games')
With regards to the monthly fall of occupancy rates in March, this is balanced out by the April's figures due to the early Easter break. The report authors, PKF stated in relation to UK-wide industry occupancy rates:
[quote]In contrast to March, where the early Easter break meant a decline in business travellers compared to 2007, it was the 2007 Easter break which meant the figures for April 2008 were so buoyant.[/quote]
Sydney Meriwether wrote:
Okay, I've given you misery hunters enough time to moan amongst yourselves... here's some quantitative data:
Acknowledged industry benchmark, STR Global's HotelBenchmark recent survey by Deloitte, shows Glasgow's all-important revenue per available room falling, while it rises elsewhere across UK:
"While cities such as Manchester (-3.9 per cent), Glasgow (-1.2 per cent), Cardiff (-7.5) and Birmingham (-5.8 per cent) are registering revPAR declines, Belfast hotels outperformed even London with a +7.4 per cent increase. Only Liverpool was better at +8.4 per cent."
Our very won leading, and much-respected by Sydney Meriwether, local newspaper, the ET, last month on 26/05/08:
A new survey shows the city (Glasgow) was worst-hit in the UK during March as the number of full rooms fell by 8.4%.
In Scotland as a whole bookings were down 5.3%.
The report on hotel occupancy was published by business advisers PKF and based on a survey of more than 300 three and four-star establishments across the UK.
So that's independent accounts PKF saying occupancy is down by 8.4% and independent auditors Deloitte going further and saying that the crucial revPAR is also falling by 1.2%!
How'd do you like them apples readers?
Regarding the revPAR figure, based on the HotelBenchmark, Glasgow is actually outperformed the industry average for regional hotels. The industry (outside London) suffered a 1.3% decline. (in comparison to 1.2% for Glasgow).
Also, if you wish to use Liverpool as a comparison, you may wish to use Deloitte's explanation:
Hotels in Liverpool are benefiting from the city being the European Capital of Culture 2008, with a host of festivals and events driving more tourists into the city
Presumably, we will also benefit when the Commonwealth Games come to Glasgow. (Oh yeah, you prefer to use the derogatory name 'Diddy Games')
With regards to the monthly fall of occupancy rates in March, this is balanced out by the April's figures due to the early Easter break. The report authors, PKF stated in relation to UK-wide industry occupancy rates:
In contrast to March, where the early Easter break meant a decline in business travellers compared to 2007, it was the 2007 Easter break which meant the figures for April 2008 were so buoyant.
Posted by: Happychappy, glasgow on 3:47pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Meep and Sydney are surely one and the same?
Either way, no amount of fact is going to put Rev I M Jolly down.
Reading the odd sensible moan in amongst, the usual daily ill informed tirade is what makes the online edition worthwhile.
Meep and Sydney are surely one and the same?
Either way, no amount of fact is going to put Rev I M Jolly down.
Reading the odd sensible moan in amongst, the usual daily ill informed tirade is what makes the online edition worthwhile.
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 3:54pm Tue 24 Jun 08
I think Sydney is Steven Purcell’s jilted ex-wife but not Meep. Meep’s obsession with “sex tourists” is unique and unfathomable…
I think Sydney is Steven Purcell’s jilted ex-wife but not Meep. Meep’s obsession with “sex tourists” is unique and unfathomable…
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, At home on 4:12pm Tue 24 Jun 08
No surprise to see that you're [bold]wrong again[/bold] Big Al; this is no blip caused by an "early Easter break", this is the early stage of a [bold]long-term tourism decline in Glasgow[/bold] which was first reported by The Scotsman in Jan 2008, based on figures from Nov 2007... six months later and Glasgow's hotel occupancy rates AND yields are still falling, even against a background of decent performance by other Scottish cities.
[italic]Aberdeen's five-star showing; The Scotsman, 16th January 2008[/italic]
[quote]The all-important yield factor (the sector's measurement of revenue per available room) showed Scotland maintaining the lead at GBP 57.21 per night, ahead of Wales and England by 78p a night and GBP 3.14 a night respectively.
Aberdeen, which recently topped nationwide polls for house-price growth and retail sales increases, grew its hotel yield by the largest percentage of city in the UK, increasing by 11.9 per cent. This compares with a rise of only 3.2 per cent in Edinburgh and [bold]a fall of 5.8 per cent in Glasgow[/bold].
PKF, the accountants and business advisors who prepare the poll, described Aberdeen's performance as "remarkable" since it occurred against a fall of 4.2 per cent in occupancy. Edinburgh's occupancy increased by 1 per cent and [bold]Glasgow's fell by 3.2 per cent[/bold].[/quote]
No surprise to see that you're
wrong again Big Al; this is no blip caused by an "early Easter break", this is the early stage of a
long-term tourism decline in Glasgow which was first reported by The Scotsman in Jan 2008, based on figures from Nov 2007... six months later and Glasgow's hotel occupancy rates AND yields are still falling, even against a background of decent performance by other Scottish cities.
Aberdeen's five-star showing; The Scotsman, 16th January 2008
The all-important yield factor (the sector's measurement of revenue per available room) showed Scotland maintaining the lead at GBP 57.21 per night, ahead of Wales and England by 78p a night and GBP 3.14 a night respectively.
Aberdeen, which recently topped nationwide polls for house-price growth and retail sales increases, grew its hotel yield by the largest percentage of city in the UK, increasing by 11.9 per cent. This compares with a rise of only 3.2 per cent in Edinburgh and a fall of 5.8 per cent in Glasgow.
PKF, the accountants and business advisors who prepare the poll, described Aberdeen's performance as "remarkable" since it occurred against a fall of 4.2 per cent in occupancy. Edinburgh's occupancy increased by 1 per cent and Glasgow's fell by 3.2 per cent.
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 4:16pm Tue 24 Jun 08
...oh and it's not just in hotel occupancy rates that Glasgow in losing out on... from The Scotsman on 21st June 2008:
[quote]Sales at John Lewis in Edinburgh rose just under 4 per cent in the week to 14 June, while the Aberdeen outlet was up just under 1 per cent.
[bold]The Glasgow store did worse, with weekly sales falling 5.7 per cent.[/bold] [/quote]
...oh and it's not just in hotel occupancy rates that Glasgow in losing out on... from The Scotsman on 21st June 2008:
Sales at John Lewis in Edinburgh rose just under 4 per cent in the week to 14 June, while the Aberdeen outlet was up just under 1 per cent.
The Glasgow store did worse, with weekly sales falling 5.7 per cent.
Posted by: Joe Shmo, Glasgow on 4:21pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Yeah - thats right - Glasgow and Amsterdam and prague. 3 places that come to mind when looking for your nooky. Hehehe. Well, Glasgow anyway if your thinking of fat mingers/skinny junkies..
Yeah - thats right - Glasgow and Amsterdam and prague. 3 places that come to mind when looking for your nooky. Hehehe. Well, Glasgow anyway if your thinking of fat mingers/skinny junkies..
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 4:33pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Sydney, the following day, The Scotsman said: "yields in Glasgow and Edinburgh were [bold]up[/bold] 5.8% and 3.2% respectively". I think they may have mis-printed in your earlier quote.
What [bold]you[/bold] omitted was that your article also included the text, "Both Aberdeen and Glasgow have experienced sizeable growth in room yields over 2007, rising by 15.3 per cent and 11.4 per cent, with Edinburgh rising by 5 per cent." It seems likely that things are slowing down a bit in 2008 - that's an international thing. Glasgow could still do quite a bit better but it's nothing like the basket case (in every aspect) that you like to suggest.
Anyone can pick and choose statistics to reinforce their prejudices. When there's an objective and comprehensive report saying that tourism in Glasgow is taking a nosedive, I'll be worried. But there isn't.
Sydney, the following day, The Scotsman said: "yields in Glasgow and Edinburgh were
up 5.8% and 3.2% respectively". I think they may have mis-printed in your earlier quote.
What
you omitted was that your article also included the text, "Both Aberdeen and Glasgow have experienced sizeable growth in room yields over 2007, rising by 15.3 per cent and 11.4 per cent, with Edinburgh rising by 5 per cent." It seems likely that things are slowing down a bit in 2008 - that's an international thing. Glasgow could still do quite a bit better but it's nothing like the basket case (in every aspect) that you like to suggest.
Anyone can pick and choose statistics to reinforce their prejudices. When there's an objective and comprehensive report saying that tourism in Glasgow is taking a nosedive, I'll be worried. But there isn't.
Posted by: Big Al, Glasgow on 4:34pm Tue 24 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Sydney Meriwether[/bold] wrote:
No surprise to see that you're [bold]wrong again[/bold] Big Al; this is no blip caused by an "early Easter break", this is the early stage of a [bold]long-term tourism decline in Glasgow[/bold] which was first reported by The Scotsman in Jan 2008, based on figures from Nov 2007... six months later and Glasgow's hotel occupancy rates AND yields are still falling, even against a background of decent performance by other Scottish cities.
[italic]Aberdeen's five-star showing; The Scotsman, 16th January 2008[/italic]
[quote]The all-important yield factor (the sector's measurement of revenue per available room) showed Scotland maintaining the lead at GBP 57.21 per night, ahead of Wales and England by 78p a night and GBP 3.14 a night respectively.
Aberdeen, which recently topped nationwide polls for house-price growth and retail sales increases, grew its hotel yield by the largest percentage of city in the UK, increasing by 11.9 per cent. This compares with a rise of only 3.2 per cent in Edinburgh and [bold]a fall of 5.8 per cent in Glasgow[/bold].
PKF, the accountants and business advisors who prepare the poll, described Aberdeen's performance as "remarkable" since it occurred against a fall of 4.2 per cent in occupancy. Edinburgh's occupancy increased by 1 per cent and [bold]Glasgow's fell by 3.2 per cent[/bold].[/quote] [/quote] So are we discrediting PKF then... the early Easter explanation was their words not mine.
What evidence due you have for this [bold]long term tourism decline in Glasgow[/bold]. Presumably this is just your interpretation of these reports. I don't beleive there is anybody that has predicted this long-term decline.
Then you show an article from January commenting on Aberdeen's hotel occupancy for 2007. Here's what Deloitte have to say for 2007 based on the "crucial revPAR":
[quote]Aberdeen retains the top spot with the fastest growing revPAR of any UK hotel market, enjoying impressive growth of 17.2% thanks to strong weekday business demand from the North Sea oil industry. However, with large oil producers saying they will be reducing North Sea oil production next year, growth in 2008 may be more restrained. Outside London, Glasgow follows with growth of 10.5%.[/quote]
Seems like Glasgow is doing well after all.
Sydney Meriwether wrote:
No surprise to see that you're wrong again Big Al; this is no blip caused by an "early Easter break", this is the early stage of a long-term tourism decline in Glasgow which was first reported by The Scotsman in Jan 2008, based on figures from Nov 2007... six months later and Glasgow's hotel occupancy rates AND yields are still falling, even against a background of decent performance by other Scottish cities.
Aberdeen's five-star showing; The Scotsman, 16th January 2008
The all-important yield factor (the sector's measurement of revenue per available room) showed Scotland maintaining the lead at GBP 57.21 per night, ahead of Wales and England by 78p a night and GBP 3.14 a night respectively.
Aberdeen, which recently topped nationwide polls for house-price growth and retail sales increases, grew its hotel yield by the largest percentage of city in the UK, increasing by 11.9 per cent. This compares with a rise of only 3.2 per cent in Edinburgh and a fall of 5.8 per cent in Glasgow.
PKF, the accountants and business advisors who prepare the poll, described Aberdeen's performance as "remarkable" since it occurred against a fall of 4.2 per cent in occupancy. Edinburgh's occupancy increased by 1 per cent and Glasgow's fell by 3.2 per cent.
So are we discrediting PKF then... the early Easter explanation was their words not mine.
What evidence due you have for this
long term tourism decline in Glasgow. Presumably this is just your interpretation of these reports. I don't beleive there is anybody that has predicted this long-term decline.
Then you show an article from January commenting on Aberdeen's hotel occupancy for 2007. Here's what Deloitte have to say for 2007 based on the "crucial revPAR":
Aberdeen retains the top spot with the fastest growing revPAR of any UK hotel market, enjoying impressive growth of 17.2% thanks to strong weekday business demand from the North Sea oil industry. However, with large oil producers saying they will be reducing North Sea oil production next year, growth in 2008 may be more restrained. Outside London, Glasgow follows with growth of 10.5%.
Seems like Glasgow is doing well after all.
Posted by: Big Al, Glasgow on 4:38pm Tue 24 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Sydney Meriwether[/bold] wrote:
...oh and it's not just in hotel occupancy rates that Glasgow in losing out on... from The Scotsman on 21st June 2008:
[quote]Sales at John Lewis in Edinburgh rose just under 4 per cent in the week to 14 June, while the Aberdeen outlet was up just under 1 per cent.
[bold]The Glasgow store did worse, with weekly sales falling 5.7 per cent.[/bold] [/quote] [/quote] What is that?
Are you just scrapping the barrel just to belittle Glasgow. Finding anything you can to believe that Glasgow is on the slide.
Do you want more Glaswegians to shop at John Lewis? Is John Lewis an economic indicator?
What's your point?
Sydney Meriwether wrote:
...oh and it's not just in hotel occupancy rates that Glasgow in losing out on... from The Scotsman on 21st June 2008:
Sales at John Lewis in Edinburgh rose just under 4 per cent in the week to 14 June, while the Aberdeen outlet was up just under 1 per cent.
The Glasgow store did worse, with weekly sales falling 5.7 per cent.
What is that?
Are you just scrapping the barrel just to belittle Glasgow. Finding anything you can to believe that Glasgow is on the slide.
Do you want more Glaswegians to shop at John Lewis? Is John Lewis an economic indicator?
What's your point?
Posted by: Happychappy, glasgow on 4:47pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Big Al, Chill.
Syd is not the type to enter into debate with.
Just enjoy the fact that he actually believes his guff.
Big Al, Chill.
Syd is not the type to enter into debate with.
Just enjoy the fact that he actually believes his guff.
Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 4:54pm Tue 24 Jun 08
[quote]What is that?[/quote]
An city retail statistic.
[quote]Are you just scrapping the barrel just to belittle Glasgow. Finding anything you can to believe that Glasgow is on the slide.[/quote]
I'm quoting facts about the long-term economic problems facing Glasgow; the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option.
[quote]Do you want more Glaswegians to shop at John Lewis?[/quote]
Yes, but I'd prefer more high-spending tourists; unfortunately this is not going to happen until Glasgow has an effective tourism plan which takes into consideration the prevailing economic problems the city faces.
[quote]Is John Lewis an economic indicator?[/quote]
For a hugely important market segment, yes, and a very important one at that.
[quote]What's your point?[/quote]
Again... the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option.
[italic]That's all for me just now - I'm away to John Lewis to buy some luxury items for my holiday in the Glasgow Hilton this weekend! ;)[/italic]
What is that?
An city retail statistic.
Are you just scrapping the barrel just to belittle Glasgow. Finding anything you can to believe that Glasgow is on the slide.
I'm quoting facts about the long-term economic problems facing Glasgow; the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option.
Do you want more Glaswegians to shop at John Lewis?
Yes, but I'd prefer more high-spending tourists; unfortunately this is not going to happen until Glasgow has an effective tourism plan which takes into consideration the prevailing economic problems the city faces.
Is John Lewis an economic indicator?
For a hugely important market segment, yes, and a very important one at that.
What's your point?
Again... the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option.
That's all for me just now - I'm away to John Lewis to buy some luxury items for my holiday in the Glasgow Hilton this weekend! ;) Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 5:07pm Tue 24 Jun 08
[quote]the quicker we can accept the situation[/quote]
The situation as exclusively revealed by Sydney...
the quicker we can accept the situation
The situation as exclusively revealed by Sydney...
Posted by: zzipp67, Glasgow on 5:52pm Tue 24 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Sydney Meriwether[/bold] wrote:
[quote]What is that?[/quote] An city retail statistic. [quote]Are you just scrapping the barrel just to belittle Glasgow. Finding anything you can to believe that Glasgow is on the slide.[/quote] I'm quoting facts about the long-term economic problems facing Glasgow; the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option. [quote]Do you want more Glaswegians to shop at John Lewis?[/quote] Yes, but I'd prefer more high-spending tourists; unfortunately this is not going to happen until Glasgow has an effective tourism plan which takes into consideration the prevailing economic problems the city faces. [quote]Is John Lewis an economic indicator?[/quote] For a hugely important market segment, yes, and a very important one at that. [quote]What's your point?[/quote] Again... the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option. [italic]That's all for me just now - I'm away to John Lewis to buy some luxury items for my holiday in the Glasgow Hilton this weekend! ;)[/italic] [/quote] Sydney - I read your misinformed rants every day and they sadden me.
1. What is it you would change about glasgow?
2. What is this situation you refer to?
3. Do you know retail statistics and how glasgow fares nationally - that the golden Z is still the biggest spend per person/sf outside london?
4. do you ever deal in facts?
Sydney Meriwether wrote:
What is that?
An city retail statistic. Are you just scrapping the barrel just to belittle Glasgow. Finding anything you can to believe that Glasgow is on the slide.
I'm quoting facts about the long-term economic problems facing Glasgow; the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option. Do you want more Glaswegians to shop at John Lewis?
Yes, but I'd prefer more high-spending tourists; unfortunately this is not going to happen until Glasgow has an effective tourism plan which takes into consideration the prevailing economic problems the city faces. Is John Lewis an economic indicator?
For a hugely important market segment, yes, and a very important one at that. What's your point?
Again... the quicker we can accept the situation, the quicker we can start to address the consequences of the looming problems. Sticking your head in the sand is NOT and option. That's all for me just now - I'm away to John Lewis to buy some luxury items for my holiday in the Glasgow Hilton this weekend! ;)
Sydney - I read your misinformed rants every day and they sadden me.
1. What is it you would change about glasgow?
2. What is this situation you refer to?
3. Do you know retail statistics and how glasgow fares nationally - that the golden Z is still the biggest spend per person/sf outside london?
4. do you ever deal in facts?
Posted by: Scotland0705, glasgow on 5:55pm Tue 24 Jun 08
There may be a fall in occupancy but it won't stay like that forever. People lately have been hit by the credit crunch and don't have as much money to spend on fancy things. But the owners know that this may not last because in 6 years time, the [bold]Games[/bold] are coming here so they will grab land while its at its cheapest so they can have a share in the profit made from the games. In that year hotel rooms will be at high occupancy and when people come here to see the games, they will see that our city is lovely and looks as if its had an effort to clear it up with new re-generation and they may come back again and again.
There may be a fall in occupancy but it won't stay like that forever. People lately have been hit by the credit crunch and don't have as much money to spend on fancy things. But the owners know that this may not last because in 6 years time, the
Games are coming here so they will grab land while its at its cheapest so they can have a share in the profit made from the games. In that year hotel rooms will be at high occupancy and when people come here to see the games, they will see that our city is lovely and looks as if its had an effort to clear it up with new re-generation and they may come back again and again.
Posted by: 2for1, Glasgow on 6:24pm Tue 24 Jun 08
[bold]Right everyone, lets all take a day to help Sydney turn the city around... Since he seems to think service based industry is not the way forward for Glasgow, (even though it is a natural evolution for a city to move into this industry over time!), we should all go back to building things... 'cause when we all worked in the factories and shipyards life in Glasgow must have been just great!!! So lets all go to B&Q (or John Lewis... seems they need a wee boost these days!) and everyone buy a tool (insert your own joke about Syd here!). Then on say, 1st July, we all go to the clyde-side and build something! Dunno what the h*ll we're gonna build, but when Glasgow built things, it must have been great and never had any problems! Like several people have asked before Sydney, what is YOUR solution to the problems this city faces!?[/bold]
[italic]This post was done in recognition of Sydney's pencant for using bold![/italic]
Right everyone, lets all take a day to help Sydney turn the city around... Since he seems to think service based industry is not the way forward for Glasgow, (even though it is a natural evolution for a city to move into this industry over time!), we should all go back to building things... 'cause when we all worked in the factories and shipyards life in Glasgow must have been just great!!! So lets all go to B&Q (or John Lewis... seems they need a wee boost these days!) and everyone buy a tool (insert your own joke about Syd here!). Then on say, 1st July, we all go to the clyde-side and build something! Dunno what the h*ll we're gonna build, but when Glasgow built things, it must have been great and never had any problems! Like several people have asked before Sydney, what is YOUR solution to the problems this city faces!?
This post was done in recognition of Sydney's pencant for using bold! Posted by: 2for1, Glasgow on 6:27pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Ooops... [italic]penchant[/italic]
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 6:43pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Having had a look at the political activists ( with the compulsory mental health issues)who seem to be painting a false picture of a couple of square miles in the city centre of Glasgow (cuse thats where most of these hotles are and will be) I have lived and worked in Glasgow all my life and never have i seen such a depressing future for the city. The sole strategy seems to be building hotels for sex tourists stag nights and the short term use of the Commonwealth games. What happens after these games? This is just all short termism that is hiding a lack of any cohertent policy. Like i said tourism hasnt helped the majority of Glaswegians and the [bold]whole[/bold] city. So for all the Fetes-Gordonstoun public school boys coming on here pretending to be "Glaswegian" whilst not having a clue about the city , just go back to reading your Evening Standard please. The city has i see it is going to become a sociological battlefield in the next couple of years. A lot of Glaswegians have started to be second fiddle to tourist who dont provide any benfit to Glasgow. Its because of this alienation that this is going to cause a lot of trouble and potential violence to tourists if something is not done to readdress this imbalance. what do you think the deprived people of the schemes in Glasgow are going to do if they tke second place to transitory tourists who treat thr city like an amusement arcade. [bold]Nothing good[/bold] . So its in the best interest of council and the politicans to provide something more substantial than a dozen or so hotels in the city centre has some sort of "regeneration" policy that doesnt benefit Glasgow [bold]as a whole[/bold]. [bold]You cant teach a cat to be a dog , and you cant change the beast that is Glasgow[/bold] with a couple of hotels for sex tourists..
Having had a look at the political activists ( with the compulsory mental health issues)who seem to be painting a false picture of a couple of square miles in the city centre of Glasgow (cuse thats where most of these hotles are and will be) I have lived and worked in Glasgow all my life and never have i seen such a depressing future for the city. The sole strategy seems to be building hotels for sex tourists stag nights and the short term use of the Commonwealth games. What happens after these games? This is just all short termism that is hiding a lack of any cohertent policy. Like i said tourism hasnt helped the majority of Glaswegians and the
whole city. So for all the Fetes-Gordonstoun public school boys coming on here pretending to be "Glaswegian" whilst not having a clue about the city , just go back to reading your Evening Standard please. The city has i see it is going to become a sociological battlefield in the next couple of years. A lot of Glaswegians have started to be second fiddle to tourist who dont provide any benfit to Glasgow. Its because of this alienation that this is going to cause a lot of trouble and potential violence to tourists if something is not done to readdress this imbalance. what do you think the deprived people of the schemes in Glasgow are going to do if they tke second place to transitory tourists who treat thr city like an amusement arcade.
Nothing good . So its in the best interest of council and the politicans to provide something more substantial than a dozen or so hotels in the city centre has some sort of "regeneration" policy that doesnt benefit Glasgow
as a whole.
You cant teach a cat to be a dog , and you cant change the beast that is Glasgow with a couple of hotels for sex tourists..
Posted by: 2for1, Glasgow on 7:57pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Meep, what the hell is your obsession with sex tourists!? And where else in the world have you ever heard of people beating up tourists over the state of their country/city!?
Here's a basic lesson for you (and that looser Sydney!) I work for an airline, so lets look at how one, just one of my passengers helps our city: Tourist flies into Glasgow (keeps me in my airline job),(money into economy), gets a taxi to their hotel, (money into economy), checks into their hotel, (money into economy), goes to a night at the theatre (or whatever), (money into economy), restaurant for dinner that night, (money into economy), few drinks in a bar afterwards, (money into economy), taxi back to their hotel, (money into economy), shopping in Buchanan st next day, (money into economy), lunch, (money into economy), more shopping (hopefully at J.Lewis, eh Sydney?), (money into economy), dinner at restaurant, (money into economy), bar, (money into economy)... you must be able to see where this is going!? Now, lets take away all the tourist who come here over the year.... all that money from all those people (look how much my ONE passenger has contributed to Glasgow in 2 days!) and then we have a real problem. |Fewer passengers, airlines lay off crew, fewer customers, taxi prices up, fewer guests, hotels close down, fewer customers, retaurants lay off staff, less punters in bars, staff get laid off / earn less with less tips... can you see where THIS is going!?
No one in their right mind is going to 'blame' tourists for glasgow's problems as they are doing quite the opposite and helping this city. How you can say we as citizens are becoming second fiddle to tourists is just sh*te so why dont you and Sydney meet up for a coffee and you can sit and moan about the state of Glasgow to each other and leave the ET comments for people who have positive things to say about Glasgow!
Meep, what the hell is your obsession with sex tourists!? And where else in the world have you ever heard of people beating up tourists over the state of their country/city!?
Here's a basic lesson for you (and that looser Sydney!) I work for an airline, so lets look at how one, just one of my passengers helps our city: Tourist flies into Glasgow (keeps me in my airline job),(money into economy), gets a taxi to their hotel, (money into economy), checks into their hotel, (money into economy), goes to a night at the theatre (or whatever), (money into economy), restaurant for dinner that night, (money into economy), few drinks in a bar afterwards, (money into economy), taxi back to their hotel, (money into economy), shopping in Buchanan st next day, (money into economy), lunch, (money into economy), more shopping (hopefully at J.Lewis, eh Sydney?), (money into economy), dinner at restaurant, (money into economy), bar, (money into economy)... you must be able to see where this is going!? Now, lets take away all the tourist who come here over the year.... all that money from all those people (look how much my ONE passenger has contributed to Glasgow in 2 days!) and then we have a real problem. |Fewer passengers, airlines lay off crew, fewer customers, taxi prices up, fewer guests, hotels close down, fewer customers, retaurants lay off staff, less punters in bars, staff get laid off / earn less with less tips... can you see where THIS is going!?
No one in their right mind is going to 'blame' tourists for glasgow's problems as they are doing quite the opposite and helping this city. How you can say we as citizens are becoming second fiddle to tourists is just sh*te so why dont you and Sydney meet up for a coffee and you can sit and moan about the state of Glasgow to each other and leave the ET comments for people who have positive things to say about Glasgow!
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 8:49pm Tue 24 Jun 08
Meep, in all seriousness, why not take a look at Glasgow's economic strategy? It's on the web. You might not agree with it but it's not all about tourism...
Meep, in all seriousness, why not take a look at Glasgow's economic strategy? It's on the web. You might not agree with it but it's not all about tourism...
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 8:59pm Tue 24 Jun 08
2for1, tourism is estimated to put about £700m into Glasgow's economy. Not that it makes any difference, obviously.
www.scotexchange.net
/gg_cv_2006.pdf
2for1, tourism is estimated to put about £700m into Glasgow's economy. Not that it makes any difference, obviously.
www.scotexchange.net
/gg_cv_2006.pdf
Posted by: aeu99217, Cessnock on 9:07pm Tue 24 Jun 08
all i can say is have a look at this website. Both sydney and meep deserve a place on it, maybe if we all sent some of their comments in they will eventually be put on it.
http://ifyoulikeitso
muchwhydontyougolive
there.com/
all i can say is have a look at this website. Both sydney and meep deserve a place on it, maybe if we all sent some of their comments in they will eventually be put on it.
http://ifyoulikeitso
muchwhydontyougolive
there.com/
Posted by: Roy Batty, Glasgow on 12:42pm Wed 25 Jun 08
[italic]"For a hugely important market segment, yes, and a very important one at that."[/italic]
Hmphrrrsnigger...
Sidney, where in Edinburgh do you live?
"For a hugely important market segment, yes, and a very important one at that."
Hmphrrrsnigger...
Sidney, where in Edinburgh do you live?
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 12:49pm Wed 25 Jun 08
2for1, i take your point on, but thats been happening for the last 2 decades and it hasnt made any difference to the deprivation and the poverty in Glasgow. And trying to hide it away with a couple of hotels in Glasgow is not going to work. Using pointless statisitics that bare no relation to the reality on the ground isnt going to hoodwink toughned and cynical Glaswegians who sees through the bullcr*p presented has polticans. So again i say Glasgow has had two decades worth of tourism to make a differnence and it hasnt worked. And thinking that some posh hotels for beach-dirtytans and sex tourists is going to eliminate the poverty in rundown schemes in Glasgows is ludicrous. Something more concrete and enduring is needed than lap dancing club patrons. [bold]Glasgow is not a tourist city[/bold] .
2for1, i take your point on, but thats been happening for the last 2 decades and it hasnt made any difference to the deprivation and the poverty in Glasgow. And trying to hide it away with a couple of hotels in Glasgow is not going to work. Using pointless statisitics that bare no relation to the reality on the ground isnt going to hoodwink toughned and cynical Glaswegians who sees through the bullcr*p presented has polticans. So again i say Glasgow has had two decades worth of tourism to make a differnence and it hasnt worked. And thinking that some posh hotels for beach-dirtytans and sex tourists is going to eliminate the poverty in rundown schemes in Glasgows is ludicrous. Something more concrete and enduring is needed than lap dancing club patrons.
Glasgow is not a tourist city .
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