Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 11:05am Fri 1 Aug 08
[bold]Glasgow: Scotland with Style![/bold] (TM)
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Sydney Meriwether
[italic]Campaigning for a 'Who gives a ****' option in ET polls.[/italic]
Glasgow: Scotland with Style! (TM)
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Sydney Meriwether
Campaigning for a 'Who gives a ****' option in ET polls. Posted by: BeeSee on 11:16am Fri 1 Aug 08
Brings tear to ma good eye
Even dragging a soaked, muddy mattress through the drizzle, Joe, one of the men on community service, knows it could be worse.
The 27-year-old, from the South Side, said: "This is better than sitting in a jail cell"
Beautiful - When i grow up I want to be just like him.................
..
Brings tear to ma good eye
Even dragging a soaked, muddy mattress through the drizzle, Joe, one of the men on community service, knows it could be worse.
The 27-year-old, from the South Side, said: "This is better than sitting in a jail cell"
Beautiful - When i grow up I want to be just like him.................
..
Posted by: The thinking alternative, City centre on 11:32am Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote]Most don't speak English and some don't read or write in any language.[/quote]
Not sure what positive contribution these people can make to Glasgow. If they are working and paying their taxes, then fair enough, but otherwise why are we supporting these people? Liberals better start opening their eyes to the reality of this situation because tensions are building up to a point where it could turn ugly.
Most don't speak English and some don't read or write in any language.
Not sure what positive contribution these people can make to Glasgow. If they are working and paying their taxes, then fair enough, but otherwise why are we supporting these people? Liberals better start opening their eyes to the reality of this situation because tensions are building up to a point where it could turn ugly.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 12:07pm Fri 1 Aug 08
got to agree with you The Thinking alternative. Why has the ogvernment at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter? how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute? Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill leading out to Pollokshelds. Als what agreements were made between Govanhill housing association and the social work and the government? There is a lot of invetigating needed there. Finally the cynic in me thinks that the Westminster government wants unrest up here by shunting all the romany into glasgow.Why not dundde take some of the weight? Or Ayr? Or kilmarnock? Or Inverness ? Or Aberdeen? [bold]Why is glasgow being the dumping ground? and why is Glasgow council allowing the destabilising social engineering to happen?[/bold]
got to agree with you The Thinking alternative. Why has the ogvernment at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter? how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute? Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill leading out to Pollokshelds. Als what agreements were made between Govanhill housing association and the social work and the government? There is a lot of invetigating needed there. Finally the cynic in me thinks that the Westminster government wants unrest up here by shunting all the romany into glasgow.Why not dundde take some of the weight? Or Ayr? Or kilmarnock? Or Inverness ? Or Aberdeen?
Why is glasgow being the dumping ground? and why is Glasgow council allowing the destabilising social engineering to happen? Posted by: scotgod, glasgow on 12:14pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote][bold]BeeSee[/bold] wrote:
Brings tear to ma good eye Even dragging a soaked, muddy mattress through the drizzle, Joe, one of the men on community service, knows it could be worse. The 27-year-old, from the South Side, said: "This is better than sitting in a jail cell" Beautiful - When i grow up I want to be just like him................. .. [/quote] Children need good role models
well done joe for aking a sabbatical from the nick for the benifit of the local community.
The meesage is simple kids, get out, mug old pensioners, screw hooses, be involved in narcotics
and you too, can be a mattress dragger like joe
meanwhile in Geneva a group of International judges have to be sedated as they enter their 3rd hour of incessant hysterics after t Govanhills appication to be named as the Worlds best place to live
BeeSee wrote:
Brings tear to ma good eye Even dragging a soaked, muddy mattress through the drizzle, Joe, one of the men on community service, knows it could be worse. The 27-year-old, from the South Side, said: "This is better than sitting in a jail cell" Beautiful - When i grow up I want to be just like him................. ..
Children need good role models
well done joe for aking a sabbatical from the nick for the benifit of the local community.
The meesage is simple kids, get out, mug old pensioners, screw hooses, be involved in narcotics
and you too, can be a mattress dragger like joe
meanwhile in Geneva a group of International judges have to be sedated as they enter their 3rd hour of incessant hysterics after t Govanhills appication to be named as the Worlds best place to live
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 12:18pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote][bold]The thinking alternative[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Most don't speak English and some don't read or write in any language.[/quote]
Not sure what positive contribution these people can make to Glasgow. If they are working and paying their taxes, then fair enough, but otherwise why are we supporting these people? Liberals better start opening their eyes to the reality of this situation because tensions are building up to a point where it could turn ugly.[/quote]
Maybe, but aren't the vast majority of people on benefits born here?
Besides, people have always moved around. Aren't they just doing the jobs that those born here don't want?
The thinking alternative wrote:
Most don't speak English and some don't read or write in any language.
Not sure what positive contribution these people can make to Glasgow. If they are working and paying their taxes, then fair enough, but otherwise why are we supporting these people? Liberals better start opening their eyes to the reality of this situation because tensions are building up to a point where it could turn ugly.
Maybe, but aren't the vast majority of people on benefits born here?
Besides, people have always moved around. Aren't they just doing the jobs that those born here don't want?
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 12:28pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[bold]Meep[/bold] wrote:
[bold]Why has the government at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter?[/bold]
It's called the European Union. We can go there, they can come here. Customs Officers don't have time to run GCSE English exams.
[bold]how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute?[/bold]
Probably like the Polish painters I saw on West George Street yesterday, but cheerfully getting on with their jobs.
[bold]Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill...[/bold]
Is there meant to be a connection here? Would a few English evening classes prevent this so-called race war?
Meep wrote:
Why has the government at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter?
It's called the European Union. We can go there, they can come here. Customs Officers don't have time to run GCSE English exams.
how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute?
Probably like the Polish painters I saw on West George Street yesterday, but cheerfully getting on with their jobs.
Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill...
Is there meant to be a connection here? Would a few English evening classes prevent this so-called race war?
Posted by: The thinking alternative, City centre on 12:36pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote]Probably like the Polish painters I saw on West George Street yesterday, but cheerfully getting on with their jobs.
[/quote]
I don't think many people in Glasgow would grudge the Polish people their stay here. They have proved themselves hard working and friendly and are without doubt a positive contibuter to Glasgow. Those are not the East Europeans that people are refering to.
Probably like the Polish painters I saw on West George Street yesterday, but cheerfully getting on with their jobs.
I don't think many people in Glasgow would grudge the Polish people their stay here. They have proved themselves hard working and friendly and are without doubt a positive contibuter to Glasgow. Those are not the East Europeans that people are refering to.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 12:37pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Mungo i am assuming you are one of three things: You dont live near govanhill, so you dont know whats going on, 2: you dont live in glasgow. 3: Your a troll from incest pig Edinburgh.
[quote]incest pig mungo said:
yes give them some basic english lessons!! That will stop the rot!![/quote]
Mungo i am assuming you are one of three things: You dont live near govanhill, so you dont know whats going on, 2: you dont live in glasgow. 3: Your a troll from incest pig Edinburgh.
incest pig mungo said:
yes give them some basic english lessons!! That will stop the rot!!
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 12:50pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Meep[/bold] wrote:
Mungo i am assuming you are one of three things: You dont live near govanhill, so you dont know whats going on, 2: you dont live in glasgow. 3: Your a troll from incest pig Edinburgh.
[quote]incest pig mungo said:
yes give them some basic english lessons!! That will stop the rot!![/quote] [/quote]
See, if you turn to insults the first time someone repsonds you should at least try to make them funny.
Also, can you post a map highlighting the areas we should live in so our comments count?
I guess if the idea of Edinburgh is too much then people from further away dont'stand a chance.
Meep wrote:
Mungo i am assuming you are one of three things: You dont live near govanhill, so you dont know whats going on, 2: you dont live in glasgow. 3: Your a troll from incest pig Edinburgh.
incest pig mungo said:
yes give them some basic english lessons!! That will stop the rot!!
See, if you turn to insults the first time someone repsonds you should at least try to make them funny.
Also, can you post a map highlighting the areas we should live in so our comments count?
I guess if the idea of Edinburgh is too much then people from further away dont'stand a chance.
Posted by: colacube, glasgow on 1:25pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Meep, when you are talking about Glasgow being a dumping ground do you mean for Asylum Seekers and Refugees? The reason we have a large number is quite simple. There was a pot of money offered to the city for it, a pile of houses they could not rent out and bingo, the powers that be are happy. They get a nice wad of dosh and not only are these flats occupied (meaning a bigger slice of other social funding) they get rent for it too.
Where the money is being spent is an all together different question!
Meep, when you are talking about Glasgow being a dumping ground do you mean for Asylum Seekers and Refugees? The reason we have a large number is quite simple. There was a pot of money offered to the city for it, a pile of houses they could not rent out and bingo, the powers that be are happy. They get a nice wad of dosh and not only are these flats occupied (meaning a bigger slice of other social funding) they get rent for it too.
Where the money is being spent is an all together different question!
Posted by: emma, Glasgow on 1:34pm Fri 1 Aug 08
This clean glasgow makes me chuckle, how about the lazy cleanie boys do their job. Four weeks two huge bins have lain on their sides and what do they do - take a look and walk away. Even three complaints to the online clean glasgow site does nothing. What hope do we have if the residents and workers don't even care?
This clean glasgow makes me chuckle, how about the lazy cleanie boys do their job. Four weeks two huge bins have lain on their sides and what do they do - take a look and walk away. Even three complaints to the online clean glasgow site does nothing. What hope do we have if the residents and workers don't even care?
Posted by: trench, possilpark on 1:46pm Fri 1 Aug 08
in the police drug bust,i read 1 house had 5 t.v caneras round the house....these people are probably the same ones that complain about cameras in the city 'being an invasion of their privacy'!(BRAINS OF BRITAIN)!eejits.
in the police drug bust,i read 1 house had 5 t.v caneras round the house....these people are probably the same ones that complain about cameras in the city 'being an invasion of their privacy'!(BRAINS OF BRITAIN)!eejits.
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 1:54pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[bold]Gary-bhoy[/bold] wrote:
[bold]The difference is Mungo, if we went to their country we would not get the benefits that these scum get when they come over here. We have to pay for them.[/bold]
Not true. People from countries new to the EU (i.e. Malta, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia) are only entitled to benefits in the UK when they have work. This has been the case since 2004 (http://news.bbc.co.
uk/1/hi/uk_politics/
3675101.stm). Refugees on the other hand do get some benefits, so we help those from war-zones but not those shopping around for the best freebie.
Gary-bhoy wrote:
The difference is Mungo, if we went to their country we would not get the benefits that these scum get when they come over here. We have to pay for them.
Not true. People from countries new to the EU (i.e. Malta, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia) are only entitled to benefits in the UK when they have work. This has been the case since 2004 (http://news.bbc.co.
uk/1/hi/uk_politics/
3675101.stm). Refugees on the other hand do get some benefits, so we help those from war-zones but not those shopping around for the best freebie.
Posted by: that_boy_chris, Govanhill on 1:56pm Fri 1 Aug 08
We are helping these people because they are human beings. If to you that seems like such an odd reason then I'm ashamed to be the same species as you. Study the history of these people. You'll soon find out why they can't read or write in any language. These are people, EU or no EU they deserve a chance at a better life. I live in Govanhill iv had Slovakian neighbors apart from the singing they caused no trouble. So F**K Sydney Meriwether, The thinking alternative and Meep you fools are IGNORANT and i hope you have to live the struggle of the Roma people some day for your lack of empathy and abundance of stupidity.
We are helping these people because they are human beings. If to you that seems like such an odd reason then I'm ashamed to be the same species as you. Study the history of these people. You'll soon find out why they can't read or write in any language. These are people, EU or no EU they deserve a chance at a better life. I live in Govanhill iv had Slovakian neighbors apart from the singing they caused no trouble. So F**K Sydney Meriwether, The thinking alternative and Meep you fools are IGNORANT and i hope you have to live the struggle of the Roma people some day for your lack of empathy and abundance of stupidity.
Posted by: The thinking alternative, City centre on 2:11pm Fri 1 Aug 08
that_boy_chis, much as I admire your humanitarianism, the world is a hard place and there are no shortage of people in dire need of help. Being pragmatic rather than idealistic is an unfortunate necessity since we cannot home and feed the worlds needy in Glasgow.
that_boy_chis, much as I admire your humanitarianism, the world is a hard place and there are no shortage of people in dire need of help. Being pragmatic rather than idealistic is an unfortunate necessity since we cannot home and feed the worlds needy in Glasgow.
Posted by: atrocityexhibition, Glasgow on 2:20pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Important point by 'that_boy_chris' that some immigrants haven't had the life chances and opporunities that others have had. Fair enough but no community should have to accept fly tipping or anything else that endangers their health and the public at large. Anyone, no matter who they are, who fly tips is a dirty basta and I would like to hear them justify otherwise.
Immigrants are not solely responsible for the Govanhill slum problems typified by Westmoreland Street. What have most (not all) local NEDs been doing for the last 20 years or so? Cleaning graffiti, promoting good community relations and staying out of trouble? Aye 'bout right!
If more NEDs were better educated then they might be more receptive to receiving peoples' from other cultures. This might also lead to new community relations that transcend socially constructed differences reproduced at home and through a similarly small skulled peer group.
Important point by 'that_boy_chris' that some immigrants haven't had the life chances and opporunities that others have had. Fair enough but no community should have to accept fly tipping or anything else that endangers their health and the public at large. Anyone, no matter who they are, who fly tips is a dirty basta and I would like to hear them justify otherwise.
Immigrants are not solely responsible for the Govanhill slum problems typified by Westmoreland Street. What have most (not all) local NEDs been doing for the last 20 years or so? Cleaning graffiti, promoting good community relations and staying out of trouble? Aye 'bout right!
If more NEDs were better educated then they might be more receptive to receiving peoples' from other cultures. This might also lead to new community relations that transcend socially constructed differences reproduced at home and through a similarly small skulled peer group.
Posted by: George Brown, glasgow on 2:50pm Fri 1 Aug 08
I was born and brought up in Govanhill, and still have many happy memories of living in the district, I have been greatly disappointed in recent visits to the area
I was born and brought up in Govanhill, and still have many happy memories of living in the district, I have been greatly disappointed in recent visits to the area
Posted by: johnboijones, GLASGOW on 2:58pm Fri 1 Aug 08
I have to say that Govanhill is a state, but that is because nobody takes responsibility for their own area, people leave sofas, beds you name it out on the street or in their back court - as they expect someone else to pick it up!!
I have to say that Govanhill is a state, but that is because nobody takes responsibility for their own area, people leave sofas, beds you name it out on the street or in their back court - as they expect someone else to pick it up!!
Posted by: newman, glasgow on 3:23pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Mungo, you are misled as to the right to benefits in this country. You are correct in pointing out you need to have been a tax payer for all of ONE year to claim benefits, however if you have children, this state will pay you child benefit allowance, it alco has a duty of care which is a legal entitlement, which means they must have a roof over their head, so the state must provide the parents with a house or privately rented accomadation, which the tax payer pays the rent and council tax, as the parents are their guardians at least one of them is entitled to single parent living allowance. So in effect they get their rent, council tax, child benefit and at least single parent living allowance, if you don't believe me contact the DSS/job centre and they will clarify this.
Mungo, you are misled as to the right to benefits in this country. You are correct in pointing out you need to have been a tax payer for all of ONE year to claim benefits, however if you have children, this state will pay you child benefit allowance, it alco has a duty of care which is a legal entitlement, which means they must have a roof over their head, so the state must provide the parents with a house or privately rented accomadation, which the tax payer pays the rent and council tax, as the parents are their guardians at least one of them is entitled to single parent living allowance. So in effect they get their rent, council tax, child benefit and at least single parent living allowance, if you don't believe me contact the DSS/job centre and they will clarify this.
Posted by: John, london on 3:28pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Ah Gary bhoy, that utopia sure is a fine place. All these Eastern Europeans have to do is work for twelve months and then access all benefits which in most cases puts them ahead in housing lists as they claim to be homeless with children to be brought here.
We pay a fortune in child benefits for kids who will never set foot in this country, far better claim here than ie. Poland
As for your nonsense about poor refugees, amazing how they can traverse the globe to get to Britain, one reason, money and of course an abundance of looney tunes exist who spout idiocy about racism if one dares to question these greedy parasites, scroungers and liars. The good thing is that the world has wakened up to the ramblings of people like Gary Bhoy and his nonsensical fables.
Ah Gary bhoy, that utopia sure is a fine place. All these Eastern Europeans have to do is work for twelve months and then access all benefits which in most cases puts them ahead in housing lists as they claim to be homeless with children to be brought here.
We pay a fortune in child benefits for kids who will never set foot in this country, far better claim here than ie. Poland
As for your nonsense about poor refugees, amazing how they can traverse the globe to get to Britain, one reason, money and of course an abundance of looney tunes exist who spout idiocy about racism if one dares to question these greedy parasites, scroungers and liars. The good thing is that the world has wakened up to the ramblings of people like Gary Bhoy and his nonsensical fables.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 4:01pm Fri 1 Aug 08
gary Bhoy the feeling is mutual I and every other good citizen of glasgow would love to send you packing off to poland or even better hungary where you can starve and freeze on the meagre eastern euorpean benefits.
gary Bhoy the feeling is mutual I and every other good citizen of glasgow would love to send you packing off to poland or even better hungary where you can starve and freeze on the meagre eastern euorpean benefits.
Posted by: BeeSee on 4:02pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Who cares about Govahill, I'm off to look at this new website about ageing celebs????
Sydney has your Mum come on today to deflect the flack???
Who cares about Govahill, I'm off to look at this new website about ageing celebs????
Sydney has your Mum come on today to deflect the flack???
Posted by: broxibear51, alexandria,scotland on 4:02pm Fri 1 Aug 08
We must stop all the refugees coming here, we have enough problems looking after the people who are here just now without taking anymore and another thing i i was in fear of my life and had to leave my country i would go to the first safe one not do what they do and pass by safe countrys to get here and they do that for one reason and that is money, no other country is so stupid as us, we are the soft touch of the world and it has to stop.
We must stop all the refugees coming here, we have enough problems looking after the people who are here just now without taking anymore and another thing i i was in fear of my life and had to leave my country i would go to the first safe one not do what they do and pass by safe countrys to get here and they do that for one reason and that is money, no other country is so stupid as us, we are the soft touch of the world and it has to stop.
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 4:31pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote][bold]John[/bold] wrote:
Ah Gary bhoy, that utopia sure is a fine place. All these Eastern Europeans have to do is work for twelve months and then access all benefits which in most cases puts them ahead in housing lists as they claim to be homeless with children to be brought here.
We pay a fortune in child benefits for kids who will never set foot in this country, far better claim here than ie. Poland
As for your nonsense about poor refugees, amazing how they can traverse the globe to get to Britain, one reason, money and of course an abundance of looney tunes exist who spout idiocy about racism if one dares to question these greedy parasites, scroungers and liars. The good thing is that the world has wakened up to the ramblings of people like Gary Bhoy and his nonsensical fables.[/quote] Look again. Gary-Bhoy agrees with you.
John wrote:
Ah Gary bhoy, that utopia sure is a fine place. All these Eastern Europeans have to do is work for twelve months and then access all benefits which in most cases puts them ahead in housing lists as they claim to be homeless with children to be brought here.
We pay a fortune in child benefits for kids who will never set foot in this country, far better claim here than ie. Poland
As for your nonsense about poor refugees, amazing how they can traverse the globe to get to Britain, one reason, money and of course an abundance of looney tunes exist who spout idiocy about racism if one dares to question these greedy parasites, scroungers and liars. The good thing is that the world has wakened up to the ramblings of people like Gary Bhoy and his nonsensical fables.
Look again. Gary-Bhoy agrees with you.
Posted by: flyingscot, Crookston on 4:34pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Meep[/bold] wrote:
got to agree with you The Thinking alternative. Why has the ogvernment at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter? how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute? Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill leading out to Pollokshelds. Als what agreements were made between Govanhill housing association and the social work and the government? There is a lot of invetigating needed there. Finally the cynic in me thinks that the Westminster government wants unrest up here by shunting all the romany into glasgow.Why not dundde take some of the weight? Or Ayr? Or kilmarnock? Or Inverness ? Or Aberdeen? [bold]Why is glasgow being the dumping ground? and why is Glasgow council allowing the destabilising social engineering to happen?[/bold] [/quote] What like the Brits that open businesses in Spain and can't speak or write Spanish, and go to British pubs and other english speaking suppiers..
We are just as bad!
Meep wrote:
got to agree with you The Thinking alternative. Why has the ogvernment at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter? how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute? Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill leading out to Pollokshelds. Als what agreements were made between Govanhill housing association and the social work and the government? There is a lot of invetigating needed there. Finally the cynic in me thinks that the Westminster government wants unrest up here by shunting all the romany into glasgow.Why not dundde take some of the weight? Or Ayr? Or kilmarnock? Or Inverness ? Or Aberdeen? Why is glasgow being the dumping ground? and why is Glasgow council allowing the destabilising social engineering to happen?
What like the Brits that open businesses in Spain and can't speak or write Spanish, and go to British pubs and other english speaking suppiers..
We are just as bad!
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 5:00pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Why bother. It will be just as bad this time next week. And where were the residents of these houses whilst all this was going on. No mention of their assistance. Or can the interpreter not communicate with adults who woould tell her where to go.
ET, I suggest you arrange an unannounced visit to this site in a week or so and put the photographs on show.
Why bother. It will be just as bad this time next week. And where were the residents of these houses whilst all this was going on. No mention of their assistance. Or can the interpreter not communicate with adults who woould tell her where to go.
ET, I suggest you arrange an unannounced visit to this site in a week or so and put the photographs on show.
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 5:01pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote][bold]broxibear51[/bold] wrote:
We must stop all the refugees coming here, we have enough problems looking after the people who are here just now without taking anymore and another thing i i was in fear of my life and had to leave my country i would go to the first safe one not do what they do and pass by safe countrys to get here and they do that for one reason and that is money, no other country is so stupid as us, we are the soft touch of the world and it has to stop.[/quote] How about: We're a comparitively rich nation and can afford to help some people out. This scaremongering about how we have to turn away those in need is pretty heartless.
If we need to get better at working out who's genuine then fair enough, but this "stop them all" nonsense just reminds me of Enoch Powell. If money is short it's Gordon's fault for spending too much on bullets. Don't blame those trying to make a better life, whoever or wherever they are, and especially when they've lived through crap we only see on TV.
broxibear51 wrote:
We must stop all the refugees coming here, we have enough problems looking after the people who are here just now without taking anymore and another thing i i was in fear of my life and had to leave my country i would go to the first safe one not do what they do and pass by safe countrys to get here and they do that for one reason and that is money, no other country is so stupid as us, we are the soft touch of the world and it has to stop.
How about: We're a comparitively rich nation and can afford to help some people out. This scaremongering about how we have to turn away those in need is pretty heartless.
If we need to get better at working out who's genuine then fair enough, but this "stop them all" nonsense just reminds me of Enoch Powell. If money is short it's Gordon's fault for spending too much on bullets. Don't blame those trying to make a better life, whoever or wherever they are, and especially when they've lived through crap we only see on TV.
Posted by: Eh?, Glasgow on 5:04pm Fri 1 Aug 08
I think you will find that the Romany are not refugees they are actually member of the EU and are entitled to live in the UK. Just like the Scots are entitled to live throughout the EU However they are not entitled to benefits of any kind from the UK govt.
This nonsense about them having to learn English first; that’s rich coming from the British (or Scottish if you prefer). Never has a population travelled so far and learned so few languages. I worked with guys who'd lived in Germany and Holland for 10 years and still couldn't hold a short conversation. Mr Pot let me introduce Mr Kettle
Go down to G'Hill and you'll find the majority of benefits claimants are the indigenous Scots.
This nationalistic banal argument against immigrants is wearing think and growing a tad ugly. If this is a reflection of how an independent Scotland will be then god help us all
I think you will find that the Romany are not refugees they are actually member of the EU and are entitled to live in the UK. Just like the Scots are entitled to live throughout the EU However they are not entitled to benefits of any kind from the UK govt.
This nonsense about them having to learn English first; that’s rich coming from the British (or Scottish if you prefer). Never has a population travelled so far and learned so few languages. I worked with guys who'd lived in Germany and Holland for 10 years and still couldn't hold a short conversation. Mr Pot let me introduce Mr Kettle
Go down to G'Hill and you'll find the majority of benefits claimants are the indigenous Scots.
This nationalistic banal argument against immigrants is wearing think and growing a tad ugly. If this is a reflection of how an independent Scotland will be then god help us all
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 5:20pm Fri 1 Aug 08
If you look at the bottom photo closely, it would appear that they have merely dumped all the rubbish over the fence.
Obviously the goodwill didn't extend that far.
If you look at the bottom photo closely, it would appear that they have merely dumped all the rubbish over the fence.
Obviously the goodwill didn't extend that far.
Posted by: DAVE, Southside, Glasgow on 7:29pm Fri 1 Aug 08
They, the non-reading, non-writing, non- speaking unhygienic, unclean immigrants were directed to, and dumped in Glasgow by their ‘transporters.’ They were dumped here because our city councillors have let it be known that they will accept anyone in Glasgow and fix them up with all they need. Our councillors have allowed thousands of asylum seekers into Glasgow and refuse to assist our Home Office in the removal of those who have no right to be here. Glasgow is a worldwide recognized dumping-ground. Govanhill is now Glasgow’s very own ghetto. Offload your undesirables onto Glasgow - no action will be taken.
There will be a clean out in Glasgow - the present mob of Glasgow councillors will get booted out next time around. Too late to save Glasgow and Govanhill? Probably - Glaswegians will not speak out.
They, the non-reading, non-writing, non- speaking unhygienic, unclean immigrants were directed to, and dumped in Glasgow by their ‘transporters.’ They were dumped here because our city councillors have let it be known that they will accept anyone in Glasgow and fix them up with all they need. Our councillors have allowed thousands of asylum seekers into Glasgow and refuse to assist our Home Office in the removal of those who have no right to be here. Glasgow is a worldwide recognized dumping-ground. Govanhill is now Glasgow’s very own ghetto. Offload your undesirables onto Glasgow - no action will be taken.
There will be a clean out in Glasgow - the present mob of Glasgow councillors will get booted out next time around. Too late to save Glasgow and Govanhill? Probably - Glaswegians will not speak out.
Posted by: bluey, glasgow on 7:30pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[quote][bold]flyingscot[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Meep[/bold] wrote: got to agree with you The Thinking alternative. Why has the ogvernment at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter? how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute? Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill leading out to Pollokshelds. Als what agreements were made between Govanhill housing association and the social work and the government? There is a lot of invetigating needed there. Finally the cynic in me thinks that the Westminster government wants unrest up here by shunting all the romany into glasgow.Why not dundde take some of the weight? Or Ayr? Or kilmarnock? Or Inverness ? Or Aberdeen? [bold]Why is glasgow being the dumping ground? and why is Glasgow council allowing the destabilising social engineering to happen?[/bold] [/quote] What like the Brits that open businesses in Spain and can't speak or write Spanish, and go to British pubs and other english speaking suppiers.. We are just as bad! [/quote] Yes, the Brits abroad are guilty of living in ex-pat enclaves and not learning local languages and cultures.
But the majority overseas are either retiring after a lifetime of work or they start businesses. They tend to live in properties that they buy and tend not to claim benefit.
So there's not much comparison between between ex-pats in Spain and immigrants in Govanhill apart from failure to mix with the locals for various reasons.
You'll struggle to find an article where Brits are perceived to have brought wholesale squalor and degredation to an area overseas (aided an abetted by rogue landlords).
flyingscot wrote:
Meep wrote: got to agree with you The Thinking alternative. Why has the ogvernment at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter? how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute? Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill leading out to Pollokshelds. Als what agreements were made between Govanhill housing association and the social work and the government? There is a lot of invetigating needed there. Finally the cynic in me thinks that the Westminster government wants unrest up here by shunting all the romany into glasgow.Why not dundde take some of the weight? Or Ayr? Or kilmarnock? Or Inverness ? Or Aberdeen? Why is glasgow being the dumping ground? and why is Glasgow council allowing the destabilising social engineering to happen?
What like the Brits that open businesses in Spain and can't speak or write Spanish, and go to British pubs and other english speaking suppiers.. We are just as bad!
Yes, the Brits abroad are guilty of living in ex-pat enclaves and not learning local languages and cultures.
But the majority overseas are either retiring after a lifetime of work or they start businesses. They tend to live in properties that they buy and tend not to claim benefit.
So there's not much comparison between between ex-pats in Spain and immigrants in Govanhill apart from failure to mix with the locals for various reasons.
You'll struggle to find an article where Brits are perceived to have brought wholesale squalor and degredation to an area overseas (aided an abetted by rogue landlords).
Posted by: bluey, glasgow on 7:34pm Fri 1 Aug 08
It's a very thoughtful initiative (must be positive) but the half-wit in me wonders how long it will take for the cleaned up areas to return to their former un-glory.
To have a permanent change would require changes in the type of behaviour that has led to parts of Govanhill being filthy and neglected by the tenants and the landlords. At least it was pitched as a 'small intervention' though small and temporary would be more accurate.
Kiddies and neds on community service can only do so much to reverse a trend.
It's a very thoughtful initiative (must be positive) but the half-wit in me wonders how long it will take for the cleaned up areas to return to their former un-glory.
To have a permanent change would require changes in the type of behaviour that has led to parts of Govanhill being filthy and neglected by the tenants and the landlords. At least it was pitched as a 'small intervention' though small and temporary would be more accurate.
Kiddies and neds on community service can only do so much to reverse a trend.
Posted by: thistlemad, Ayrshire on 8:16pm Fri 1 Aug 08
Mungo seems to be just picking the "legal" points that justify his arguments.
How about this one?
UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE UK TO HAVE ASYLUM SEEKERS?
The reason is simple ...... the last time I looked at a map, the UK was an island.
"POOR" immigrants don`t exist either .... they can afford the thousands it costs to GET here.
They troop into the DHS offices dripping in gold chains and rings and watches ....... locals are first told to use the pawn shops .... immigrants claim their jewellery is either traditional or religious wear.
We are NOT a rich nation as has been claimed.
Money cannot flow from Pakistan, most of Africa and possibly India too. But it flows fast enough in the other direction!!!!!
On Radio Scotland a few months ago I heard the son of a Pakistani asking how his father could avoid paying UK income tax on all the homes he owned here even though he lived in Pakistan!!!!! Possible relevant point in there????
One large firm in Ayrshire has paid off MOST if not all of its Scottish workforce in favour of Poilsh, Romanian and Russian employees ..... it now has massive Local Authority contracts ..... how the fook does that work????????
Go to M&Ds and see all the different instructions for operating the rides printed in all different languages the staff booths .... how can that be safe is there are so many languages spoken????
How many millions are spent on translators by all the various Government bodies? Think about it ...... translators were used today .. do you think that was free?????? Surely there must be ONE parent who can speak English!!!!!
And before the morons among you start calling me a racist, ... my partner of almost 20 years (fook, it was only supposed to be a dirty weekend!!!) just happens to be half Pakistani.
I am not a racist .... but I would like SOME sort of future employment for our kids!!!!
Mungo seems to be just picking the "legal" points that justify his arguments.
How about this one?
UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE UK TO HAVE ASYLUM SEEKERS?
The reason is simple ...... the last time I looked at a map, the UK was an island.
"POOR" immigrants don`t exist either .... they can afford the thousands it costs to GET here.
They troop into the DHS offices dripping in gold chains and rings and watches ....... locals are first told to use the pawn shops .... immigrants claim their jewellery is either traditional or religious wear.
We are NOT a rich nation as has been claimed.
Money cannot flow from Pakistan, most of Africa and possibly India too. But it flows fast enough in the other direction!!!!!
On Radio Scotland a few months ago I heard the son of a Pakistani asking how his father could avoid paying UK income tax on all the homes he owned here even though he lived in Pakistan!!!!! Possible relevant point in there????
One large firm in Ayrshire has paid off MOST if not all of its Scottish workforce in favour of Poilsh, Romanian and Russian employees ..... it now has massive Local Authority contracts ..... how the fook does that work????????
Go to M&Ds and see all the different instructions for operating the rides printed in all different languages the staff booths .... how can that be safe is there are so many languages spoken????
How many millions are spent on translators by all the various Government bodies? Think about it ...... translators were used today .. do you think that was free?????? Surely there must be ONE parent who can speak English!!!!!
And before the morons among you start calling me a racist, ... my partner of almost 20 years (fook, it was only supposed to be a dirty weekend!!!) just happens to be half Pakistani.
I am not a racist .... but I would like SOME sort of future employment for our kids!!!!
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 9:55pm Fri 1 Aug 08
[bold]thistlemad[/bold]: Xenophobic maybe, but not racist. Scaremongering about new arrivals has been going on for centuries. "They" always have it better, get easy money, take jobs, steal etc. etc. whereas "We" are always hard done by. The only change has been which group was being picked on. Predicting disaster based on arrival of a new group is an age old political gambit and it's about time we saw through it. Your post could have been written about the arrival of SS Windrush, the influx of Chinese into London around 1900 or many, many others. Disaster didn't strike then and it won't strike now.
If anybody is responsible for current problems I'd suggest looking at local and national politicians and those running major corporations who wipe out thousands of jobs because another country has lower wages.
People who are just trying to get by aren't the ones to blame. Their country has been fecked so they move on. Any one of us would do the same - many already Scots are, that's why the population is declining. The problem is those who are making the big money, not those suffocating in cargo containers just for the chance to earn a living wage halfway around the world. The suits and lawyers take far more than anyone who's so screwed that they come all the way to Govanhill just to sign-on or work 16 hour shifts for half minimum wage. Capitalism is a global game. It only helps the money men that we waste time squabbling amongst ourselves. We all want a better world for our kids but we can't build a wall round Scotland when the world is changing around us, whether we like it or not.
Poor immigrants do exist. They're just victims of organised crime. People Trafficking is the next most profitable after drugs. They're promised the good life in a country they know nothing about, then they arrive and end up in a work gang picking cockles with threats against the family back home if they leave before the "debt" is paid, with extortionate interest rates.
Not a rich nation... really? In 2007 the UK was 5th out of 180 countries for GDP. Someone is making money here. Maybe we need politicians who have the nerve to tax those who have it.
Anyway, it's nice that those kids tidied up their close. Good on them.
thistlemad: Xenophobic maybe, but not racist. Scaremongering about new arrivals has been going on for centuries. "They" always have it better, get easy money, take jobs, steal etc. etc. whereas "We" are always hard done by. The only change has been which group was being picked on. Predicting disaster based on arrival of a new group is an age old political gambit and it's about time we saw through it. Your post could have been written about the arrival of SS Windrush, the influx of Chinese into London around 1900 or many, many others. Disaster didn't strike then and it won't strike now.
If anybody is responsible for current problems I'd suggest looking at local and national politicians and those running major corporations who wipe out thousands of jobs because another country has lower wages.
People who are just trying to get by aren't the ones to blame. Their country has been fecked so they move on. Any one of us would do the same - many already Scots are, that's why the population is declining. The problem is those who are making the big money, not those suffocating in cargo containers just for the chance to earn a living wage halfway around the world. The suits and lawyers take far more than anyone who's so screwed that they come all the way to Govanhill just to sign-on or work 16 hour shifts for half minimum wage. Capitalism is a global game. It only helps the money men that we waste time squabbling amongst ourselves. We all want a better world for our kids but we can't build a wall round Scotland when the world is changing around us, whether we like it or not.
Poor immigrants do exist. They're just victims of organised crime. People Trafficking is the next most profitable after drugs. They're promised the good life in a country they know nothing about, then they arrive and end up in a work gang picking cockles with threats against the family back home if they leave before the "debt" is paid, with extortionate interest rates.
Not a rich nation... really? In 2007 the UK was 5th out of 180 countries for GDP. Someone is making money here. Maybe we need politicians who have the nerve to tax those who have it.
Anyway, it's nice that those kids tidied up their close. Good on them.
Posted by: trench, possilpark on 10:36pm Fri 1 Aug 08
dave you are dead right about glasgow people not speaking out,its been like that for donkeys ages. i laugh when a group have a chat on the street and dicussing the state of the areas done in their area,its "oh thats a disgrace somebody should ....phone the polis.....clean that up... tell his mammy.....write their name doon....tell that man/woman to clean up their dog mess....move these vandals away from this area....then walk away saying"i am in a hurry...bye!"...no follow up and if the police are called, the person who called are terrified the culprits watch to see what close the police stop at,(no wonder nobody complains...surely there is a better system than that, then the lights of the squad car lights up and the he haw sirenes send a telegram, then every one scampers,...it should be ..silent but deadly, just like the heid maister creepin up on ye.
dave you are dead right about glasgow people not speaking out,its been like that for donkeys ages. i laugh when a group have a chat on the street and dicussing the state of the areas done in their area,its "oh thats a disgrace somebody should ....phone the polis.....clean that up... tell his mammy.....write their name doon....tell that man/woman to clean up their dog mess....move these vandals away from this area....then walk away saying"i am in a hurry...bye!"...no follow up and if the police are called, the person who called are terrified the culprits watch to see what close the police stop at,(no wonder nobody complains...surely there is a better system than that, then the lights of the squad car lights up and the he haw sirenes send a telegram, then every one scampers,...it should be ..silent but deadly, just like the heid maister creepin up on ye.
Posted by: thistlemad, Ayrshire on 11:17pm Fri 1 Aug 08
IF
"They're just victims of organised crime. People Trafficking is the next most profitable after drugs. They're promised the good life in a country they know nothing about, then they arrive and end up in a work gang picking cockles with threats against the family back home if they leave before the "debt" is paid, with extortionate interest rates."
Then surely you have just destroyed your own argument!!! These people smugglers (who should be executed WITHOUT trial) do NOT bring you here and then want paid. There are thousands to be paid up front first.
As for your comment about the Chinese . hmmmm let me think, oh yes, they were chopping each other up a few weeks ago in Glasgow City centre over drugs and people smuggling "rights".
Multiculturism can NEVER work and HAS never worked in mans history. In fact it has been the downfall of EVERY civilisation or empire in history. The current "empire" (which is another term to decribe the dominant world power at the time) is on the slide due to too many different races trying to live side by side, but bringing each other down at evry oppertunity. I am refering of course to that great bastion of civilisation the USA.
All the different black cultures fighting each other as well as the whites.
Man, on the whole, is and probably always will be a tribal animal. Wether the "tribe" is colour, race or religious is immaterial and relatively unimportant.
Even religions seperate into factions, and these are people who all have basically the same belief!!!! So what chance do the rest of us REALLY have???
Christianity and Islam have always had one thing in common ... global domination by ANY means. The reasons are the most basic of all .... money and power.
WE as in the rest of the world are guilty of two things, wanting to protect what we have, and allowing the unseen multi billionaires to wield power from behind corrupt politicians, no more and no less.
Every influx of "foreigners" has traditionally brought their own crime traditions with them, which in turn pi55es off the local populace, which in turn is referred to as "racial" tension. IT IS NOT!!!! It is just a wish that things hadn`t changed.
One other point, too many are pussyfooting around the fact that most of the slum landlords are either Asian born or asian descent . they do NOT have the same outlook as "us". All they care about is money and possessions.
I have a house, mortgage, car and van etc etc. Sure, Id love a little more money and another bedroom or two, just like the rest of us .... but I could NEVER get that at the expense of the misery of others.
These landlords simply dont care about anything except money.
IF
"They're just victims of organised crime. People Trafficking is the next most profitable after drugs. They're promised the good life in a country they know nothing about, then they arrive and end up in a work gang picking cockles with threats against the family back home if they leave before the "debt" is paid, with extortionate interest rates."
Then surely you have just destroyed your own argument!!! These people smugglers (who should be executed WITHOUT trial) do NOT bring you here and then want paid. There are thousands to be paid up front first.
As for your comment about the Chinese . hmmmm let me think, oh yes, they were chopping each other up a few weeks ago in Glasgow City centre over drugs and people smuggling "rights".
Multiculturism can NEVER work and HAS never worked in mans history. In fact it has been the downfall of EVERY civilisation or empire in history. The current "empire" (which is another term to decribe the dominant world power at the time) is on the slide due to too many different races trying to live side by side, but bringing each other down at evry oppertunity. I am refering of course to that great bastion of civilisation the USA.
All the different black cultures fighting each other as well as the whites.
Man, on the whole, is and probably always will be a tribal animal. Wether the "tribe" is colour, race or religious is immaterial and relatively unimportant.
Even religions seperate into factions, and these are people who all have basically the same belief!!!! So what chance do the rest of us REALLY have???
Christianity and Islam have always had one thing in common ... global domination by ANY means. The reasons are the most basic of all .... money and power.
WE as in the rest of the world are guilty of two things, wanting to protect what we have, and allowing the unseen multi billionaires to wield power from behind corrupt politicians, no more and no less.
Every influx of "foreigners" has traditionally brought their own crime traditions with them, which in turn pi55es off the local populace, which in turn is referred to as "racial" tension. IT IS NOT!!!! It is just a wish that things hadn`t changed.
One other point, too many are pussyfooting around the fact that most of the slum landlords are either Asian born or asian descent . they do NOT have the same outlook as "us". All they care about is money and possessions.
I have a house, mortgage, car and van etc etc. Sure, Id love a little more money and another bedroom or two, just like the rest of us .... but I could NEVER get that at the expense of the misery of others.
These landlords simply dont care about anything except money.
Posted by: Stereotypical Glaswegian, Glasgow on 2:18am Sat 2 Aug 08
I have lived in Govanhill for over 20 years and I can tell you that the situation has got much worse.
There were always neds and drunks.
It was never a pretty district.
It is now a nightmare.
I know of at least a dozen Glaswegian families who have moved out.
White flight is in full flow.
It isn't a question of race.
It isn't a question of religion.
Although there are associated issues.
It is simply a question of how immigration has worked in the previous aeon. When the Vikings turned up was there a housing officer doing a needs assessment.
When previous waves of immigrants came here they were coming to work. They got nothing and had to sink or swim.
We have a population being stuffed with people who are here to sponge. They have nothing to offer and as immigrants they are utterly useless.
The Roma were PAID to leave Slovakia.
There is a massive effort throughout Europe to absorb them into several countries. There are pockets of Roma in every European country.
Do a google search for 'Roma' and 'Italy' — that should put the mild comment here in context.
IOf an unemployed dude in Govanhill wants to start a small business he gets nothing. If an immigrant does the same he gets £2000
(A fact — check it out)
We have a moral duty to educate, develop and employ the neds and undesirables — they are Glaswegians.
We have no responsibility to adapt to or deal with unwanted and unreasonable immigrants. They must adapt and deal with us or bugger off.
That is the way things have worked for centuries.
I have lived in Govanhill for over 20 years and I can tell you that the situation has got much worse.
There were always neds and drunks.
It was never a pretty district.
It is now a nightmare.
I know of at least a dozen Glaswegian families who have moved out.
White flight is in full flow.
It isn't a question of race.
It isn't a question of religion.
Although there are associated issues.
It is simply a question of how immigration has worked in the previous aeon. When the Vikings turned up was there a housing officer doing a needs assessment.
When previous waves of immigrants came here they were coming to work. They got nothing and had to sink or swim.
We have a population being stuffed with people who are here to sponge. They have nothing to offer and as immigrants they are utterly useless.
The Roma were PAID to leave Slovakia.
There is a massive effort throughout Europe to absorb them into several countries. There are pockets of Roma in every European country.
Do a google search for 'Roma' and 'Italy' — that should put the mild comment here in context.
IOf an unemployed dude in Govanhill wants to start a small business he gets nothing. If an immigrant does the same he gets £2000
(A fact — check it out)
We have a moral duty to educate, develop and employ the neds and undesirables — they are Glaswegians.
We have no responsibility to adapt to or deal with unwanted and unreasonable immigrants. They must adapt and deal with us or bugger off.
That is the way things have worked for centuries.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 4:27am Sat 2 Aug 08
We have a population being stuffed with people who are here to sponge. They have nothing to offer and as inhabitants they are utterly useless. It is not the immigrants that refuse to work it is the folk on disability who were put there to stop the unemployment figures among the UKs citizens looking too drastic(by the torys). Imagine if 2 million were added to the unemployed figures at a stroke who would be voting for the government in power when that happened. I laugh at those who claim immigrants stop their children finding a job when it is their exceedingly low IQ and workshyness thats to blame.
We have a population being stuffed with people who are here to sponge. They have nothing to offer and as inhabitants they are utterly useless. It is not the immigrants that refuse to work it is the folk on disability who were put there to stop the unemployment figures among the UKs citizens looking too drastic(by the torys). Imagine if 2 million were added to the unemployed figures at a stroke who would be voting for the government in power when that happened. I laugh at those who claim immigrants stop their children finding a job when it is their exceedingly low IQ and workshyness thats to blame.
Posted by: I hear your pain, me,me,me on 7:43am Sat 2 Aug 08
Would somebody please define ASYLUM for me..Fair enough,Eastern Europeans are now allowed to come to the UK but what about all the asylum seekers,surely the first safe country isnt the UK..
I was in Glasgow yesterday & I was accosted 3 times by people not from E.E but from African countries asking me for money..
I told one that I would pay his fare back home & he sloped off muttering abuse,hmmmmn asylum or economic migrants you decide..
Would somebody please define ASYLUM for me..Fair enough,Eastern Europeans are now allowed to come to the UK but what about all the asylum seekers,surely the first safe country isnt the UK..
I was in Glasgow yesterday & I was accosted 3 times by people not from E.E but from African countries asking me for money..
I told one that I would pay his fare back home & he sloped off muttering abuse,hmmmmn asylum or economic migrants you decide..
Posted by: The thinking alternative, City centre on 9:02am Sat 2 Aug 08
[quote][bold]I hear your pain, me,me,me wrote:[/bold]
I was in Glasgow yesterday & I was accosted 3 times by people not from E.E but from African countries asking me for money..[/quote]
I have lived in Glasgow for 43 years and have never been asked once by an African for money. It's always local white trash junkies looking for spare change to make up their bus fare (Aye right!)
I hear your pain, me,me,me wrote:
I was in Glasgow yesterday & I was accosted 3 times by people not from E.E but from African countries asking me for money..
I have lived in Glasgow for 43 years and have never been asked once by an African for money. It's always local white trash junkies looking for spare change to make up their bus fare (Aye right!)
Posted by: aeu99217, Cessnock on 9:15am Sat 2 Aug 08
'Most don't speak English and some don't read or write in any language.'
eh, so they are illiterate then?
Is it just me that sees the irony in this?
'Most don't speak English and some don't read or write in any language.'
eh, so they are illiterate then?
Is it just me that sees the irony in this?
Posted by: jim, Glasgow on 12:25pm Sat 2 Aug 08
Its been happening in England for decades.thats why so many english can be heard in places like bute arran edinburgh and other parts.i dont blame them.now its happening in Scotlands largest city.
Its been happening in England for decades.thats why so many english can be heard in places like bute arran edinburgh and other parts.i dont blame them.now its happening in Scotlands largest city.
Posted by: Pete, Glasgow on 1:44pm Sat 2 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Meep[/bold] wrote:
Mungo i am assuming you are one of three things: You dont live near govanhill, so you dont know whats going on, 2: you dont live in glasgow. 3: Your a troll from incest pig Edinburgh. [quote]incest pig mungo said: yes give them some basic english lessons!! That will stop the rot!![/quote] [/quote] Whit a ****
Meep wrote:
Mungo i am assuming you are one of three things: You dont live near govanhill, so you dont know whats going on, 2: you dont live in glasgow. 3: Your a troll from incest pig Edinburgh. incest pig mungo said: yes give them some basic english lessons!! That will stop the rot!!
Whit a ****
Posted by: DAVE, Southside, Glasgow on 4:19pm Sat 2 Aug 08
It appears that as some Glaswegians, Scots, Brits emigrate to other countries and fail to learn the local language and do as the Romans do etc. then we are liable to accept immigrants who behave in the same way in Britain. Not so. Those who have emigrated from here cease to be part of the equation. Any problems arising between our emigrants and their new chosen country are now the responsibility of the chosen countries government, politicians, councillors, locals etc. who are entitled to deal with said problems as they see fit.
The massive problems the incoming immigrants and asylum seekers bring to Britain, Scotland and Glasgow are inflicted on the indigenous population who choose to stay here. We are on the receiving end - we are entitled to demand some action is taken against the unhygienic, disruptive and scrounging immigrants and asylum seekers. That’s where our councillors and politicians come (supposed to) in - but they don‘t - they refuse to take any action. They trip over each other their hurry to place them in accommodation, schools, NHS, dole money, translators, anything they want - and we pay for the scrounging immigrants freebies.
Solution? - can’t see one - we’re being shafted by the immigrants and we’re being shafted by our own councillors.
It appears that as some Glaswegians, Scots, Brits emigrate to other countries and fail to learn the local language and do as the Romans do etc. then we are liable to accept immigrants who behave in the same way in Britain. Not so. Those who have emigrated from here cease to be part of the equation. Any problems arising between our emigrants and their new chosen country are now the responsibility of the chosen countries government, politicians, councillors, locals etc. who are entitled to deal with said problems as they see fit.
The massive problems the incoming immigrants and asylum seekers bring to Britain, Scotland and Glasgow are inflicted on the indigenous population who choose to stay here. We are on the receiving end - we are entitled to demand some action is taken against the unhygienic, disruptive and scrounging immigrants and asylum seekers. That’s where our councillors and politicians come (supposed to) in - but they don‘t - they refuse to take any action. They trip over each other their hurry to place them in accommodation, schools, NHS, dole money, translators, anything they want - and we pay for the scrounging immigrants freebies.
Solution? - can’t see one - we’re being shafted by the immigrants and we’re being shafted by our own councillors.
Posted by: fredo, paisley on 4:34pm Sat 2 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Mungo[/bold] wrote:
[bold]Meep[/bold] wrote: [bold]Why has the government at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter?[/bold] It's called the European Union. We can go there, they can come here. Customs Officers don't have time to run GCSE English exams. [bold]how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute?[/bold] Probably like the Polish painters I saw on West George Street yesterday, but cheerfully getting on with their jobs. [bold]Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill...[/bold] Is there meant to be a connection here? Would a few English evening classes prevent this so-called race war? [/quote] no wonder your name is meep i can think of a better name.we can go to there country,s but we would not get a giro! a house!and treated properly.tell me a country where we can go to and get all the benifits they get and as for your evening classes they should not be allowed into this country if they cannot speak the lingo simpleget them out doing community service cleaning up the streets for there giro.s andhousing benifit remember they made the f--k--g mess in the first place these people were used to living like this before they landed here
Mungo wrote:
Meep wrote: Why has the government at Westminster allowed people into the UK who dont speak english or write it, or any language for that matter? It's called the European Union. We can go there, they can come here. Customs Officers don't have time to run GCSE English exams. how are people like that going to integrate and conmtribute? Probably like the Polish painters I saw on West George Street yesterday, but cheerfully getting on with their jobs. Unless their is immediate government intervention to address and deal with this then i fear this could lead to a race war between the Romany and the Pakistani community in Govanhill... Is there meant to be a connection here? Would a few English evening classes prevent this so-called race war?
no wonder your name is meep i can think of a better name.we can go to there country,s but we would not get a giro! a house!and treated properly.tell me a country where we can go to and get all the benifits they get and as for your evening classes they should not be allowed into this country if they cannot speak the lingo simpleget them out doing community service cleaning up the streets for there giro.s andhousing benifit remember they made the f--k--g mess in the first place these people were used to living like this before they landed here
Posted by: Celticghirl1969, Renfrew on 5:20pm Sat 2 Aug 08
This whole country's going to the dogs!
These people can come here and work (if they want), and are entitled to the same child benefits etc as British citizens, and can claim for however many children they have back home and send the money back to them. Now, I know child benefit isn't a lot, but multiply it by say 5 or 6 kids in Romania or Czech and that must make them practically millionaires when it arrives there, and the kids don't even need to live here.What a joke!
This whole country's going to the dogs!
These people can come here and work (if they want), and are entitled to the same child benefits etc as British citizens, and can claim for however many children they have back home and send the money back to them. Now, I know child benefit isn't a lot, but multiply it by say 5 or 6 kids in Romania or Czech and that must make them practically millionaires when it arrives there, and the kids don't even need to live here.What a joke!
Posted by: Mungo, Glasgow on 5:34pm Sat 2 Aug 08
Fredo, Thanks for knocking Meep when you should have been directing that at me. Was working out who your friends are too difficult? Are you having a wee bit of trouble with the lingo?
If you'd bothered to read the posts above you might have noticed that Meep suggested a lack of English spoken by immigrants would somehow cause a "race war" in Govanhill. I asked, sarcastically, if language classes would solve the problem, and then various numpties took the suggestion seriously. The point was to make the race war suggestion look daft, i.e. if the only problem is lack of language skills then perhaps it would be fairly easy to solve... and so there'd be no need for this so-called "race war".
The intolerance and bigotry on display here is a fecking disgrace. To quote Pastor Niemoeller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist...". If don't know the rest you should be ashamed.
Fredo, Thanks for knocking Meep when you should have been directing that at me. Was working out who your friends are too difficult? Are you having a wee bit of trouble with the lingo?
If you'd bothered to read the posts above you might have noticed that Meep suggested a lack of English spoken by immigrants would somehow cause a "race war" in Govanhill. I asked, sarcastically, if language classes would solve the problem, and then various numpties took the suggestion seriously. The point was to make the race war suggestion look daft, i.e. if the only problem is lack of language skills then perhaps it would be fairly easy to solve... and so there'd be no need for this so-called "race war".
The intolerance and bigotry on display here is a fecking disgrace. To quote Pastor Niemoeller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist...". If don't know the rest you should be ashamed.
Posted by: DAVE, Glasgow on 6:41pm Sat 2 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Mungo, Glasgow[/bold] posted: The intolerance and bigotry on display here is a fecking disgrace. To quote Pastor Niemoeller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist...". If don't know the rest you should be ashamed.[/quote]
First they came for our houses, and then our NHS, and then our schooling, and then our dole money, and I spoke out - because I was not a lying scrounger... If you let them take the rest you should be ashamed.
Mungo, Glasgow posted: The intolerance and bigotry on display here is a fecking disgrace. To quote Pastor Niemoeller: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist...". If don't know the rest you should be ashamed.
First they came for our houses, and then our NHS, and then our schooling, and then our dole money, and I spoke out - because I was not a lying scrounger... If you let them take the rest you should be ashamed.
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 7:10pm Sat 2 Aug 08
If immigration is to be tackled seriously, we must have the politicians in place who will listen to our viewpoint.
In which case, I suggest the electorate place their vote to the politician who says, enough is enough, we want no more immigrants.
I'm not a racist, although I do admit to owning a scalextric. Is that too racy?
If immigration is to be tackled seriously, we must have the politicians in place who will listen to our viewpoint.
In which case, I suggest the electorate place their vote to the politician who says, enough is enough, we want no more immigrants.
I'm not a racist, although I do admit to owning a scalextric. Is that too racy?
Posted by: thistlemad, Ayrshire on 8:28pm Sat 2 Aug 08
[quote][bold]The Wise One[/bold] wrote:
If immigration is to be tackled seriously, we must have the politicians in place who will listen to our viewpoint. In which case, I suggest the electorate place their vote to the politician who says, enough is enough, we want no more immigrants. I'm not a racist, although I do admit to owning a scalextric. Is that too racy?[/quote] EASILY the best quote of the post (last sentence).
Ive said before, I`ve never had any political aspirations, but the older I get, the more I am really considering it.
Logic and intelligence may not sit well in Westminster though. Nor will the ability to stand up to the PC brigade.
At least I`d get a decent wage though .. llf
The Wise One wrote:
If immigration is to be tackled seriously, we must have the politicians in place who will listen to our viewpoint. In which case, I suggest the electorate place their vote to the politician who says, enough is enough, we want no more immigrants. I'm not a racist, although I do admit to owning a scalextric. Is that too racy?
EASILY the best quote of the post (last sentence).
Ive said before, I`ve never had any political aspirations, but the older I get, the more I am really considering it.
Logic and intelligence may not sit well in Westminster though. Nor will the ability to stand up to the PC brigade.
At least I`d get a decent wage though .. llf
Posted by: brian, Vancouver Canada on 9:30pm Sat 2 Aug 08
I'm an ex pat living in Canada (one of the worlds most populated multicultural societies)and i have found that there are a lot of nationalities that stick together,large areas of immigrants with all there store signs in there own language.Now in the big picture they are hard working people,polite and nice,but you do feel out of place walking around there neighbourhoods.But you have to realise that the Scots are very uniqe,over the centuries we have settled and established societies all over the globe,we have qualities that do not exist in any other cultures,
I'm an ex pat living in Canada (one of the worlds most populated multicultural societies)and i have found that there are a lot of nationalities that stick together,large areas of immigrants with all there store signs in there own language.Now in the big picture they are hard working people,polite and nice,but you do feel out of place walking around there neighbourhoods.But you have to realise that the Scots are very uniqe,over the centuries we have settled and established societies all over the globe,we have qualities that do not exist in any other cultures,
Posted by: WTF?Govanhill, Govanhill on 10:37pm Sat 2 Aug 08
This debate started with an article about a group of kids (of any nationality) trying to have a bit of respect for their environment. Why so hostile? Some food for thought:
It's not an original comment to say that cities are built on immigration.
The 'send them back' type of argument is a really dangerous one, especially in Govanhill. Why? Because if we start that, where do we draw the line? Sending back the HUGE Irish community in Govanhill?? Gawd forbid!! Sending back the Pakistani community who keep our local shops open till all hours? Well, that argument has been defeated LONG AGO!
Has it ever dawned on anyone that the East Europeans who hang around Westmoreland Street are looking for work with the Asian shopkeepers there? This is just one possible reason, why do we have to be negative? After all, their kids have made a start on a very much needed clean up in Govanhill. There are fights all over Glasgow on a regular basis, not just in Govanhill and not just among immigrant communities.
Yet another unoriginal thought...
Check out the migration figures on the Government website. If we don't start living with immigrants as a matter of survival, tell me please, who is going to pay your pension in the next generation or so?
What about the local authorities? I remember a time when the cleansing lifted rubbish in Allison St more regularly than once in a blue moon, or whenever they felt like it, whichever came first. Allison St, back then, was a much more attractive place to be.
Immigrants ALWAYS move into hard to let accommodation, that's a fact of history. Local landlords, public and private, in Govanhill should shoulder the blame here, not struggling immigrants trying to make a life for themselves, like generations before them.
If people want to whinge, try directing your complaints where they will make a difference. Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.
This debate started with an article about a group of kids (of any nationality) trying to have a bit of respect for their environment. Why so hostile? Some food for thought:
It's not an original comment to say that cities are built on immigration.
The 'send them back' type of argument is a really dangerous one, especially in Govanhill. Why? Because if we start that, where do we draw the line? Sending back the HUGE Irish community in Govanhill?? Gawd forbid!! Sending back the Pakistani community who keep our local shops open till all hours? Well, that argument has been defeated LONG AGO!
Has it ever dawned on anyone that the East Europeans who hang around Westmoreland Street are looking for work with the Asian shopkeepers there? This is just one possible reason, why do we have to be negative? After all, their kids have made a start on a very much needed clean up in Govanhill. There are fights all over Glasgow on a regular basis, not just in Govanhill and not just among immigrant communities.
Yet another unoriginal thought...
Check out the migration figures on the Government website. If we don't start living with immigrants as a matter of survival, tell me please, who is going to pay your pension in the next generation or so?
What about the local authorities? I remember a time when the cleansing lifted rubbish in Allison St more regularly than once in a blue moon, or whenever they felt like it, whichever came first. Allison St, back then, was a much more attractive place to be.
Immigrants ALWAYS move into hard to let accommodation, that's a fact of history. Local landlords, public and private, in Govanhill should shoulder the blame here, not struggling immigrants trying to make a life for themselves, like generations before them.
If people want to whinge, try directing your complaints where they will make a difference. Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 11:29pm Sat 2 Aug 08
[quote][bold]WTF?Govanhill[/bold] wrote:
This debate started with an article about a group of kids (of any nationality) trying to have a bit of respect for their environment. Why so hostile? Some food for thought: It's not an original comment to say that cities are built on immigration. The 'send them back' type of argument is a really dangerous one, especially in Govanhill. Why? Because if we start that, where do we draw the line? Sending back the HUGE Irish community in Govanhill?? Gawd forbid!! Sending back the Pakistani community who keep our local shops open till all hours? Well, that argument has been defeated LONG AGO! Has it ever dawned on anyone that the East Europeans who hang around Westmoreland Street are looking for work with the Asian shopkeepers there? This is just one possible reason, why do we have to be negative? After all, their kids have made a start on a very much needed clean up in Govanhill. There are fights all over Glasgow on a regular basis, not just in Govanhill and not just among immigrant communities. Yet another unoriginal thought... Check out the migration figures on the Government website. If we don't start living with immigrants as a matter of survival, tell me please, who is going to pay your pension in the next generation or so? What about the local authorities? I remember a time when the cleansing lifted rubbish in Allison St more regularly than once in a blue moon, or whenever they felt like it, whichever came first. Allison St, back then, was a much more attractive place to be. Immigrants ALWAYS move into hard to let accommodation, that's a fact of history. Local landlords, public and private, in Govanhill should shoulder the blame here, not struggling immigrants trying to make a life for themselves, like generations before them. If people want to whinge, try directing your complaints where they will make a difference. Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away. [/quote] Wind yer neck in! Glasgow needs immigrants as much as they need an intrusion of cockroaches.
WTF?Govanhill wrote:
This debate started with an article about a group of kids (of any nationality) trying to have a bit of respect for their environment. Why so hostile? Some food for thought: It's not an original comment to say that cities are built on immigration. The 'send them back' type of argument is a really dangerous one, especially in Govanhill. Why? Because if we start that, where do we draw the line? Sending back the HUGE Irish community in Govanhill?? Gawd forbid!! Sending back the Pakistani community who keep our local shops open till all hours? Well, that argument has been defeated LONG AGO! Has it ever dawned on anyone that the East Europeans who hang around Westmoreland Street are looking for work with the Asian shopkeepers there? This is just one possible reason, why do we have to be negative? After all, their kids have made a start on a very much needed clean up in Govanhill. There are fights all over Glasgow on a regular basis, not just in Govanhill and not just among immigrant communities. Yet another unoriginal thought... Check out the migration figures on the Government website. If we don't start living with immigrants as a matter of survival, tell me please, who is going to pay your pension in the next generation or so? What about the local authorities? I remember a time when the cleansing lifted rubbish in Allison St more regularly than once in a blue moon, or whenever they felt like it, whichever came first. Allison St, back then, was a much more attractive place to be. Immigrants ALWAYS move into hard to let accommodation, that's a fact of history. Local landlords, public and private, in Govanhill should shoulder the blame here, not struggling immigrants trying to make a life for themselves, like generations before them. If people want to whinge, try directing your complaints where they will make a difference. Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.
Wind yer neck in! Glasgow needs immigrants as much as they need an intrusion of cockroaches.
Posted by: DAVE, Southside, Glasgow on 11:30pm Sat 2 Aug 08
[quote][bold]WTF?Govanhill, Govanhill[/bold] posted: Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.[/quote]
[bold]IF[/bold] Glasgow needs immigrants, do we need them in such ever-growing large numbers. And [bold]IF[/bold] Glasgow needs immigrants, why do Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee, Perth, Paisley etc, etc, etc, not take so many immigrants. Why is Glasgow the only constituency out of 32 in Scotland to do a financial deal with the Home Office to accommodate asylum seekers. If an asylum seeker or immigrant jumps off the back of a lorry in Princess Street, why does the illegal get sent through to Glasgow.
If the immigrants ‘are not about to go away’ I predict our councillors and politicians will be ‘going away’.
WTF?Govanhill, Govanhill posted: Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.
IF Glasgow needs immigrants, do we need them in such ever-growing large numbers. And
IF Glasgow needs immigrants, why do Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee, Perth, Paisley etc, etc, etc, not take so many immigrants. Why is Glasgow the only constituency out of 32 in Scotland to do a financial deal with the Home Office to accommodate asylum seekers. If an asylum seeker or immigrant jumps off the back of a lorry in Princess Street, why does the illegal get sent through to Glasgow.
If the immigrants ‘are not about to go away’ I predict our councillors and politicians will be ‘going away’.
Posted by: Stereotypical Glaswegian, Glasgow on 4:35am Sun 3 Aug 08
[quote][bold]DAVE[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]WTF?Govanhill, Govanhill[/bold] posted: Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.[/quote]
[bold]IF[/bold] Glasgow needs immigrants, do we need them in such ever-growing large numbers. And [bold]IF[/bold] Glasgow needs immigrants, why do Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee, Perth, Paisley etc, etc, etc, not take so many immigrants. Why is Glasgow the only constituency out of 32 in Scotland to do a financial deal with the Home Office to accommodate asylum seekers. If an asylum seeker or immigrant jumps off the back of a lorry in Princess Street, why does the illegal get sent through to Glasgow.
If the immigrants ‘are not about to go away’ I predict our councillors and politicians will be ‘going away’.[/quote] What Glasgow needs is politicians who respect the mandate they get from the people who elect them — not the social engineering we have been subjected to.
[bold]I predict that the majority of Glasgow's elected representatives Council, MSP and MP will be looking for honest work soon.[/bold]
DAVE wrote:
WTF?Govanhill, Govanhill posted: Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.
IF Glasgow needs immigrants, do we need them in such ever-growing large numbers. And IF Glasgow needs immigrants, why do Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee, Perth, Paisley etc, etc, etc, not take so many immigrants. Why is Glasgow the only constituency out of 32 in Scotland to do a financial deal with the Home Office to accommodate asylum seekers. If an asylum seeker or immigrant jumps off the back of a lorry in Princess Street, why does the illegal get sent through to Glasgow.
If the immigrants ‘are not about to go away’ I predict our councillors and politicians will be ‘going away’.
What Glasgow needs is politicians who respect the mandate they get from the people who elect them — not the social engineering we have been subjected to.
I predict that the majority of Glasgow's elected representatives Council, MSP and MP will be looking for honest work soon.
Posted by: Stereotypical Glaswegian, Glasgow on 4:52am Sun 3 Aug 08
[bold]WTF?Govanhill, Govanhil[/bold] l posted: Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.
A article by By ANTHONY BROWNE
[bold]The facts that shatter Labour's big immigration myth[/bold]
There is a traditional pattern to any discussion about immigration.
First, the Government and its supporters in the (often taxpayer-funded) immigration lobby declare various reasons the public should support their policies.
Otherwise we would face a serious shortage of workers, economic growth would stagnate, there would be fewer people in the workforce to help pay the country's pension bill, the NHS would collapse or that the country would suffer without the enriching force of multi-culturalism.
The argument that immigration is a major boost to economic output is 'utterly misleading'
Major inquiry destroys Labour's economic argument for migration
These arguments are then unquestioningly trumpeted by the BBC and by much of the rest of the Press which instinctively wants to support mass immigration on the basis it is the morally decent thing to do.
But then someone suddenly points to holes in the arguments, often in cold, factual ways. These critics inevitably get pilloried.
In my case, when I started pointing out some of the downsides of immigration, I was denounced by the then Home Secretary David Blunkett in the Commons for "bordering on fascism."
In an earlier generation, Ray Honeyford, the Bradford headmaster, was hounded out of his job for declaring that children who are born and grow up in England should speak English.
Sir Andrew Green, the chairman of Migrationwatch, has been regularly demonised for the counterarguments he has put forward.
But the beauty about truth is that, in the end, it will out. Ultimately, it is realised that mass immigration's critics have many valid points, and ministers are forced to change their tune (of course, rarely with any public admission that they were wrong).
And so the same government that promoted multiculturalism and attacked its critics is now having to admit that multiculturalism was wrong.
In the same way, a government that once insisted the NHS would collapse without foreign workers is now having to impose curbs on foreign medical staff.
And the very immigration lobbyists who previously denounced those who said people living in Britain should speak English now concede that they should for their own (and society's) good.
And so is the case with that final defence for mass immigration - the argument that it benefits the British economy. The trouble is that the claim that our economic boom was based on mass immigration (rather than a credit bubble) seems a little thin now that our economy is collapsing with immigration still at record levels.
The belief that we needed Eastern Europeans to fill 600,000 vacancies in our employment market seems a tad stretched given that a million or more Eastern Europeans have come - and we still have 600,000 vacancies.
The argument that we are desperately short of workers looks faintly ridiculous now that we are all increasingly aware that there are more than 5million people of working age out of work and living on benefits - and there have been for the past ten years.
The Government's final justification was that immigration is a major boost to economic output - pumping the economy by £6billion a year. This figure is parroted so often that it has become received wisdom.
But unfortunately, the argument is utterly misleading. Ignore the very serious questions about how the £6billion figure was arrived at, and take it at its face value.
The real problem is that while immigration does boost the overall size of the economy (more people working means more output), it also boosts the population.
And what people really care about is not how big the economy is but how well off they are - their standard of living and quality of life.
In short, what matters is not the total Gross Domestic Product, but the GDP per capita. This is the mind-numbingly obvious flaw in the Government's argument.
Although a growing population means more output it also means more people to consume that output. Almost all the resultant increase in GDP goes to the immigrants themselves (which is why they come to the UK in the first place).
In fact, using the Government's own figures, the effect of immigration on GDP per capita is minimal 28p a week. That too is an average figure --while the affluent who employ immigrants tend to benefit, the poor who compete with them lose out.
When Sir Andrew Green first pointed out the 28p a week figure, he was, of course, pilloried. But, although his claims are about to be confirmed by the House of Lords committee, it is probably too soon for ministers to admit the folly of their beloved £6billion argument.
But as the truth slowly emerges, it can only be a matter of time before the Government finally abandons its policies of encouraging mass immigration to this already crowded island. Only then can we expect the level of immigration to be lowered.
WTF?Govanhill, Govanhil l posted: Glasgow needs immigrants and they are not about to go away.
A article by By ANTHONY BROWNE
The facts that shatter Labour's big immigration myth
There is a traditional pattern to any discussion about immigration.
First, the Government and its supporters in the (often taxpayer-funded) immigration lobby declare various reasons the public should support their policies.
Otherwise we would face a serious shortage of workers, economic growth would stagnate, there would be fewer people in the workforce to help pay the country's pension bill, the NHS would collapse or that the country would suffer without the enriching force of multi-culturalism.
The argument that immigration is a major boost to economic output is 'utterly misleading'
Major inquiry destroys Labour's economic argument for migration
These arguments are then unquestioningly trumpeted by the BBC and by much of the rest of the Press which instinctively wants to support mass immigration on the basis it is the morally decent thing to do.
But then someone suddenly points to holes in the arguments, often in cold, factual ways. These critics inevitably get pilloried.
In my case, when I started pointing out some of the downsides of immigration, I was denounced by the then Home Secretary David Blunkett in the Commons for "bordering on fascism."
In an earlier generation, Ray Honeyford, the Bradford headmaster, was hounded out of his job for declaring that children who are born and grow up in England should speak English.
Sir Andrew Green, the chairman of Migrationwatch, has been regularly demonised for the counterarguments he has put forward.
But the beauty about truth is that, in the end, it will out. Ultimately, it is realised that mass immigration's critics have many valid points, and ministers are forced to change their tune (of course, rarely with any public admission that they were wrong).
And so the same government that promoted multiculturalism and attacked its critics is now having to admit that multiculturalism was wrong.
In the same way, a government that once insisted the NHS would collapse without foreign workers is now having to impose curbs on foreign medical staff.
And the very immigration lobbyists who previously denounced those who said people living in Britain should speak English now concede that they should for their own (and society's) good.
And so is the case with that final defence for mass immigration - the argument that it benefits the British economy. The trouble is that the claim that our economic boom was based on mass immigration (rather than a credit bubble) seems a little thin now that our economy is collapsing with immigration still at record levels.
The belief that we needed Eastern Europeans to fill 600,000 vacancies in our employment market seems a tad stretched given that a million or more Eastern Europeans have come - and we still have 600,000 vacancies.
The argument that we are desperately short of workers looks faintly ridiculous now that we are all increasingly aware that there are more than 5million people of working age out of work and living on benefits - and there have been for the past ten years.
The Government's final justification was that immigration is a major boost to economic output - pumping the economy by £6billion a year. This figure is parroted so often that it has become received wisdom.
But unfortunately, the argument is utterly misleading. Ignore the very serious questions about how the £6billion figure was arrived at, and take it at its face value.
The real problem is that while immigration does boost the overall size of the economy (more people working means more output), it also boosts the population.
And what people really care about is not how big the economy is but how well off they are - their standard of living and quality of life.
In short, what matters is not the total Gross Domestic Product, but the GDP per capita. This is the mind-numbingly obvious flaw in the Government's argument.
Although a growing population means more output it also means more people to consume that output. Almost all the resultant increase in GDP goes to the immigrants themselves (which is why they come to the UK in the first place).
In fact, using the Government's own figures, the effect of immigration on GDP per capita is minimal 28p a week. That too is an average figure --while the affluent who employ immigrants tend to benefit, the poor who compete with them lose out.
When Sir Andrew Green first pointed out the 28p a week figure, he was, of course, pilloried. But, although his claims are about to be confirmed by the House of Lords committee, it is probably too soon for ministers to admit the folly of their beloved £6billion argument.
But as the truth slowly emerges, it can only be a matter of time before the Government finally abandons its policies of encouraging mass immigration to this already crowded island. Only then can we expect the level of immigration to be lowered.
Posted by: Stereotypical Glaswegian, Glasgow on 4:58am Sun 3 Aug 08
[bold]In other words it is a fact that we need mass immigration like we need a hole in the head.[/bold]
In other words it is a fact that we need mass immigration like we need a hole in the head. Posted by: bluey, glasgow on 10:30am Sun 3 Aug 08
Govanhill has one of the highest crime rates outside of the city centre and one of the highest black and ethnic minority populations which is presumably why the anti-immigration sentiment is so high.
I thought that the local police had already attributed the large spike in crimes in the area to the residents of the homeless hostels in this area whose occupants are overwhelming composed of white Scots?
Govanhill has one of the highest crime rates outside of the city centre and one of the highest black and ethnic minority populations which is presumably why the anti-immigration sentiment is so high.
I thought that the local police had already attributed the large spike in crimes in the area to the residents of the homeless hostels in this area whose occupants are overwhelming composed of white Scots?
Posted by: newman, glasgow on 11:06am Sun 3 Aug 08
So Britain needs immagration, well there are various arguments on either side of the debate that offer powerful reasons for consolidating an already held bias, be it anti or pro immigration. However regardless of your stance, has there been such a shortage of beggers, big issue sellers and buskers (not to mention other things, that if I print would no doubt get deleted) that we have had to bring in specialists (slovakian roma)in this field to expand these industries, by my reckoning we had enough of our own doing these much neede tasks.
So Britain needs immagration, well there are various arguments on either side of the debate that offer powerful reasons for consolidating an already held bias, be it anti or pro immigration. However regardless of your stance, has there been such a shortage of beggers, big issue sellers and buskers (not to mention other things, that if I print would no doubt get deleted) that we have had to bring in specialists (slovakian roma)in this field to expand these industries, by my reckoning we had enough of our own doing these much neede tasks.
Posted by: trench, possilpark on 6:50pm Sun 3 Aug 08
i liked the lecture to the immigrants that arrived on australias shores. it went something like this....."you new immigrants are welcome here, this is a christian country, has been for centuries, our laws are to be upheld, no laws will be changed to suit you, our religion will remain the same, learn to live here in harmony, do not try to change things to suit you, this is a free country free to stay or free to leave."
i liked the lecture to the immigrants that arrived on australias shores. it went something like this....."you new immigrants are welcome here, this is a christian country, has been for centuries, our laws are to be upheld, no laws will be changed to suit you, our religion will remain the same, learn to live here in harmony, do not try to change things to suit you, this is a free country free to stay or free to leave."
Posted by: momentum, Barrhead on 11:19pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Good on those kids and workers, even the community service chap. If we all kept our city clean and didn't drop paper, fag ends etc we'd have a city that wouldn't have old mattresses hanging about. Most European cities can manage this. Why can't we?
PS I know its a free country and everything but I'm really put off commenting as most comments appear to be people having a slanging match or just being downright rude and unkind about everything. Obviously they get off on being in the public eye, albeit briefly if someone actually complains and reports them.
Could the paper have a moderator who reads the comments and decides to post up or not.
I'm not suggesting sorting through and only posting the 'nice' comments. Just to maybe not post those who appear to take a delight in being nasty and offensive about anything.
Good on those kids and workers, even the community service chap. If we all kept our city clean and didn't drop paper, fag ends etc we'd have a city that wouldn't have old mattresses hanging about. Most European cities can manage this. Why can't we?
PS I know its a free country and everything but I'm really put off commenting as most comments appear to be people having a slanging match or just being downright rude and unkind about everything. Obviously they get off on being in the public eye, albeit briefly if someone actually complains and reports them.
Could the paper have a moderator who reads the comments and decides to post up or not.
I'm not suggesting sorting through and only posting the 'nice' comments. Just to maybe not post those who appear to take a delight in being nasty and offensive about anything.
Posted by: trench, possilpark on 4:27am Mon 4 Aug 08
you are not nasty, we unfortuneatly live in a world where people speak freely....you just did, good on you.
you are not nasty, we unfortuneatly live in a world where people speak freely....you just did, good on you.
Posted by: puritycontrol, Glasgow on 2:39pm Mon 4 Aug 08
Oh good! does they want to bring some of them down to do my back court and bin shed because these eastern europeans are in my bins at 3 in the morning pulling out all the rubbish to see what hidden treasure they can find! And to top it off the Bin men refuse to clean up the mess and empty the bins! phoned the housing about 5 times and they still havent done a thing!
Oh good! does they want to bring some of them down to do my back court and bin shed because these eastern europeans are in my bins at 3 in the morning pulling out all the rubbish to see what hidden treasure they can find! And to top it off the Bin men refuse to clean up the mess and empty the bins! phoned the housing about 5 times and they still havent done a thing!
Posted by: TRANSTUNNEL, europe on 5:28pm Mon 4 Aug 08
puritycontrol, Glasgow
Oh good! does they want to bring some of them down to do my back court and bin shed because these eastern europeans are in my bins at 3 in the morning pulling out all the rubbish to see what hidden treasure they can find! And to top it off the Bin men refuse to clean up the mess and empty the bins! phoned the housing about 5 times and they still havent done a thing!
But we'vealways had midgy rakers, its part of glasgow culture . There was nothing better as a waen than finding a ' lucky midgy' . My best find was an old wind up gramaphone with needles in a box and a set of pristine 78's . God knows how much it would be worth today , why spoil their fun , they know no better :-)
puritycontrol, Glasgow
Oh good! does they want to bring some of them down to do my back court and bin shed because these eastern europeans are in my bins at 3 in the morning pulling out all the rubbish to see what hidden treasure they can find! And to top it off the Bin men refuse to clean up the mess and empty the bins! phoned the housing about 5 times and they still havent done a thing!
But we'vealways had midgy rakers, its part of glasgow culture . There was nothing better as a waen than finding a ' lucky midgy' . My best find was an old wind up gramaphone with needles in a box and a set of pristine 78's . God knows how much it would be worth today , why spoil their fun , they know no better :-)
Posted by: tam-m, southside on 6:57pm Mon 4 Aug 08
may he who casts the first stone.
not be caught.
may he who casts the first stone.
not be caught.
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