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Global rate cut follows £50bn bail-out
 
 
Alistair Darling is buying stakes in banks
Alistair Darling is buying stakes in banks
 
Royal Bank's Fred Goodwin faces calls to be sacked
Royal Bank's Fred Goodwin faces calls to be sacked
 

THE Bank of England today slashed interest rates by 0.5% as Chancellor Alistair Darling announced a £50billion emergency rescue plan for UK banks.

The Chancellor's scheme will see taxpayers' money used to buy stakes in major banks in an attempt to halt the meltdown in the financial sector.

MAIN POINTS

  • Taxpayers' money will be used to buy stakes in major banks in an attempt to halt the meltdown in the financial sector.

    However, the Treasury insists the taxpayer will not lose out and it expects a return on the investment as well as a return to financial stability from the rescue package.

  • The Government is also demanding that in return for the public-backed cash injection, banks must cap executive pay and shareholder dividends and commit to supporting lending to homebuyers and small businesses.

  • Eight British banks and building societies - including Royal Bank of Scotland, Barclays, HBOS, Lloyds TSB and Nationwide - have signed up to an initial £25billion scheme.

  • The Treasury stands ready to make at least another £25billion available for other eligible institutions.

  • The Bank of England is also extending from £50bn to £200bn the existing Special Liquidity Scheme - which makes money available to banks on a day-to-day basis to plug the gap left by their fear of lending to each other.

  • A further £250bn is being pumped in under a massive debt guarantee scheme. The Government hopes the package will restore confidence and act as an encouragement for banks to lend to each other again.

  • The half-point cut was followed by banks around the world in response to the global financial turmoil.

    It's the first such move since the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks in November 2001.

    The developments followed yesterday's panic on the stock market, with banks suffering devastating share losses.

    Royal Bank of Scotland shares had plummeted 39% to a 15-year low, wiping around £10bn off the value of the business, while HBoS was down 42%.

    But after this morning's announcement, banking stocks made strong gains on the London market.

    Royal Bank of Scotland rose 12% while HBoS was 40% higher after Lloyds TSB said its proposed acquisition of the mortgage lender remained on track.

    But other banks were down as investors awaited further details on the sector's exposure to the rescue plan.

    A report this morning also suggested RBS had agreed a boardroom clear-out in return for the state-assisted boost.

    It was claimed the bank's chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin and chairman Sir Tom McKillop had agreed to stand down, but the bank denied the report.

    Mr Darling also said it was "absolutely not" true they would lose their jobs as part of a deal.

    "It is not the Government's business to deal with banks' appointments," he said. "It is entirely a matter for banks."

    Mr Darling said the bail-out measures the Government was taking were in response to "extraordinary times".

    "Those are critical so far as the system is concerned and we want to make sure we can get the system going again," he said.

    "It is a process that inevitably will take time. It is not an instant change, but it is a restructuring, it is stabilising the system."

    HBoS, which is in the process of being taken over by Lloyds TSB, said it welcomed the announcement.

    "It represents a very real and serious intention on the part of the authorities, following consultation with the banking industry, to bring stability and certainty to the UK banking system.

    "HBoS believes this initiative is very much in the interests of its shareholders and customers."

    First Minister Alex Salmond, an ex-economist, also welcomed the plan.

    "It's substantial - very substantial," he said.

    "For the first time we have seen action to open up medium-term funding, which has been one of the missing links in the previous attempts to help the situation. So that's welcome."

    But Mr Salmond said more needs to be done.

    He added: "I still think more assurance will be needed for depositors."

    The Chancellor said the taxpayer would not lose out.

    "The taxpayers' interest is being protected," he said.

    "I'm very clear that in return for all this, the taxpayer has got to see some upside. In relation to lending to small businesses, in relation to mortgages ... that's important too."

    Mr Darling said he still did not "rule anything out" but, of today's package, he added: "I believe it will go a long way."

    He added that he would be announcing measures in the Commons later to help British depositors in Icesave - the internet arm of the Icelandic Landsbanki bank, which was nationalised yesterday.

    Shadow Chancellor George Osborne said the Tories would be "as constructive as possible" and added: "We want this to work, we hope it will work."


    SELL OFF: HBoS sells Aussie bank

    HALIFAX Bank of Scotland has agreed to sell its Australian banking business for £1.2billion in a bid to boost its balance sheet.

    It said the sale of Bank of Western Australia Ltd and St Andrew's Australia Pty Ltd would "further enhance the group's capital position and reduce the group's wholesale funding requirements".

    The retail, business banking, insurance and wealth management businesses will be sold to Commonwealth Bank of Australia subject to approval by Australian regulators.

    HBoS was, until recently, considered the UK's banking giant, but is set to be taken over by Lloyds TSB after pre-tax profits for the six months to the end of June plummeted 72% to £848million.

    ICELAND: Savers face nervy wait

    AROUND 300,000 UK savers with Icelandic internet bank Icesave face an anxious wait to find out what will happen to their money.

    City watchdog, the Financial Services Authority, warned yesterday that it expected the Icelandic authorities "to put the group's parent company Landsbanki into insolvency proceedings".

    Such a move would trigger payouts to savers from the UK's and Iceland's depositor protection schemes.

    But people are likely to face a long wait for their cash - and those with more than £50,000 could potentially lose out.

    Payouts are complicated by the fact that the Icelandic scheme would pay around £16,000, with the Financial Services Compensation Scheme topping up the rest.

    ABBEY: Fixed rate loans go up

    Abbey has announced it is raising the cost of its two and three-year fixed rate mortgages by up to 0.15%.

    Abbey blamed the move on decisions by its competitors to up their rates, with Halifax, Nationwide and Lloyds TSB's mortgage arm Cheltenham & Gloucester all raising their rates in the past week.

    The change, which comes into force from tomorrow, will leave a two-year fixed rate mortgage for someone with a 25% deposit who pays arrangement fees of £549 at 6.04%.

    An increase of 0.15% adds around £14 to monthly repayments on a typical £150,000 mortgage, or £168 a year.

    The Bank of England is widely expected to cut its base interest rate tomorrow.


    Union calls for bank bosses to be sacked

    A LEADING trade union called today for "heads to roll" - including the sacking of bankers - as a result of the crisis which led to the extraordinary Government intervention.

    They want bosses to pay with their jobs after claiming workers were not prepared to see bankers, at the level of Royal Bank of Scotland chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin, receive huge bonuses paid for by the taxpayer, while public sector staff pay rises have been kept below the rate of inflation.

    Giving millions of public sector workers, including nurses and teachers, a pay rise to keep pace with inflation would have cost just £1.5 billion - a fraction of today's bail-out, said general secretary Paul Kenny.

    He added: "Business as usual is now over for the City elite that organised this disaster.

    "They will have to get used to living on normal incomes and paying their taxes now that the taxpayer is propping them up and calling the tune as a result."

    Mr Kenny said the Government had no alternative but to bail out the banks to keep the financial sector afloat but he added: "The old saying now applies with a vengeance - he who pays the piper, calls the tune.

    "GMB members who are paying the piper want to see swift action to ensure that the bankers responsible for the crisis are held accountable and dealt with. GMB members will want to see bankers' heads roll."

    The GMB was highly critical of the role of Barclays Bank in organising a huge loan to a private equity firm which took over the AA motoring organisation.

    John Cridland, deputy director general of the country's biggest business group the CBI, said the Government's announcement would herald the first step on the road to financial recovery.

    Labour MP John McDonnell said: "Yet again, the taxpayer is being asked to pay for the mistakes of the bankers with next to nothing in return.

    "I believe the Government should nationalise to stabilise the banks and must place conditions, including representation on the boards, no repossession of homes and a pay cap for bank directors with an end of bonus binges.

    "Without these conditions the bail-out is nothing but a subsidy by the taxpayer to the very people who have brought our economy to the brink of collapse."

    Publication date 08/10/08

    Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 10:53am Wed 8 Oct 08
    DESPICABLE, DISGUSTING, DISGRACEFUL!

    New Labour at its very best: using tonnes of taxpayers' money to cover up its own astronomical failures while ensuring its rich buddies get a good slice of the big pie.

    Pensioners and the poor dying in their homes this winter because they can't afford to run a single bar fire and fat cats get a bumper cash bonus to save their winter holidays to Monaco... GRRRRRRRRRR...

    --
    Sydney Meriwether
    The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    Posted by: SPAMALOT, southside on 10:56am Wed 8 Oct 08
    It was claimed the bank's chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin and chairman Sir Tom McKillop had agreed to stand down, but the bank denied the report.THEY SHOULD ALL BE JAILED IT,S CRIMINAL WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING AWAY WITH,AND ALL THIER CRONIES IN THE STOCK EXCHANGE,THEY SHOULD BE DONE WITH MONEY LAUNDERING.
    Posted by: Eric Flack, Glasgow on 11:22am Wed 8 Oct 08
    I dont think its £50 billion. My understanding its much worse. Its £500 billion of joe publics money.Correct me if I am wrong but by my mathematics this is what I understand is being offered to the banks that have failed. Some banks have not failed-wonder if they are eligible? £200 billion short term lending to banks, £25 billion recapitalisation for banks, £25billion "top up" fund. £250 billion Government guarantee for bank bond issues.So the actual sum to my ordinary mind is that the government have offered £500 billion. However it is possible that the banks that have failed my not need this money. Are their too many different high street banks? Finally how the heck are we going to pay for this? A massive rise in tax? Inflation is around 5% and pensions and benefits next April will have to rise by about 5%. Will their be any money for this?
    Posted by: Shifty, Anniesland on 12:03pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    This has prompted me to look back at the Farepak fiasco when thousands of the poorest members of society had their Xmas ruined. It seems that it would have taken around £50m to sort this out. I realise that the global economy is at risk but I don't think that will be any worse for those who saved throughout the year to make Xmas a time for their families. Good to see the people's party can bale out spivs whose wild speculation has brought this upon themselves and not those who suffered through no fault of their own. The Government seems to be able to pull money from everywhere seemingly every week but couldn't find a relative pittance to help a more deserving lot.
    Posted by: jugdement joe, glasgow on 12:54pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Sydney Meriwether wrote:
    DESPICABLE, DISGUSTING, DISGRACEFUL!

    New Labour at its very best: using tonnes of taxpayers' money to cover up its own astronomical failures while ensuring its rich buddies get a good slice of the big pie.

    Pensioners and the poor dying in their homes this winter because they can't afford to run a single bar fire and fat cats get a bumper cash bonus to save their winter holidays to Monaco... GRRRRRRRRRR...

    --
    Sydney Meriwether
    The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    yeah yeah Sid, same old labour trip, just a different issue. as i said before you dilute your argument by rolling out your old 'Labour' moan. Give us all a break and find a new moan
    Posted by: jugdement joe, glasgow on 1:00pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    SPAMALOT wrote:
    It was claimed the bank's chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin and chairman Sir Tom McKillop had agreed to stand down, but the bank denied the report.THEY SHOULD ALL BE JAILED IT,S CRIMINAL WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING AWAY WITH,AND ALL THIER CRONIES IN THE STOCK EXCHANGE,THEY SHOULD BE DONE WITH MONEY LAUNDERING.
    Not sure that I would go along with all of what you say.

    However, you are right many of these people need to be held to account, particularly if the public are to regain their confidence in the banking system.


    Posted by: Helmut de Smegma, Glasgow on 1:24pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    This is a gobal problem and there`s muppets on here blaming it on New Labour?
    Posted by: George Square, Glasgow on 1:32pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    jugdement joe wrote:
    Sydney Meriwether wrote: DESPICABLE, DISGUSTING, DISGRACEFUL! New Labour at its very best: using tonnes of taxpayers' money to cover up its own astronomical failures while ensuring its rich buddies get a good slice of the big pie. Pensioners and the poor dying in their homes this winter because they can't afford to run a single bar fire and fat cats get a bumper cash bonus to save their winter holidays to Monaco... GRRRRRRRRRR... -- Sydney Meriwether The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    yeah yeah Sid, same old labour trip, just a different issue. as i said before you dilute your argument by rolling out your old 'Labour' moan. Give us all a break and find a new moan
    JJ,

    Flaming Sydney doesn't have the "grey matter" to think beyond his ken, that is why he stays with what he thinks is tried and tested.

    But you can't deny just how funny he is everyday! He never fails to give me a chuckle.

    BTW, did you know Labour is responsible for the loss of the Titanic also?
    Just ask Flaming Sydney he has a treasure trove of statistics that he rolls out nuggets from every so often.
    I'm glad he as it, the rest of us are too busy gettin on with our lives for such inanity.
    Posted by: jugdement joe, glasgow on 2:01pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    I would like to know how a bank RBS, which posted a profit last year of 10 BILLION, can be I'm so Koch trouble 8 months later. O also think it is a question the govt should be asking !!!
    Posted by: menniet4, perth on 2:12pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    jugdement joe wrote:
    I would like to know how a bank RBS, which posted a profit last year of 10 BILLION, can be I'm so Koch trouble 8 months later. O also think it is a question the govt should be asking !!!
    i too would like to ask that even hbos made a big profit last year and they had to get sold to tsb, to save the savers!!
    Posted by: SPAMALOT, southside on 2:16pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    jugdement joe wrote:
    SPAMALOT wrote: It was claimed the bank's chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin and chairman Sir Tom McKillop had agreed to stand down, but the bank denied the report.THEY SHOULD ALL BE JAILED IT,S CRIMINAL WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING AWAY WITH,AND ALL THIER CRONIES IN THE STOCK EXCHANGE,THEY SHOULD BE DONE WITH MONEY LAUNDERING.
    Not sure that I would go along with all of what you say. However, you are right many of these people need to be held to account, particularly if the public are to regain their confidence in the banking system.
    Think about this, if i get a loan from a bank or use my credit card knowing i cant repay i get done for fraud,so in the days leading up to these banks going to the wall they were still chasing, so in my book they should be held to account.ie put before a jury and let them decide theres been to much corruption in the city for decades, hope its their last.
    Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 2:18pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Helmut de Smegma wrote:
    This is a gobal problem and there`s muppets on here blaming it on New Labour?
    It's a global problem caused by greed and mismanagement... step forward Tony Blair, the chief greedy mismanager!

    --
    Sydney Meriwether
    The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    Posted by: menniet4, timbuk 2 on 2:19pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    why is the govt giving big companies, hand outs left right and centre, but the people stugling to even heat one room up are not getting any help what so ever, i was brought up getting told labour where for the middle and lower class people, but this year is changing my mind about them, they are offering the poor familys nothing, and they have deffenetly lost my vote, Is tommy sheradens party still going?
    Posted by: menniet4, spain on 2:29pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    If the banks are that skint, why dont they just print more?

    as they do have a licence for that!!
    Posted by: iloveglasgow on 2:56pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Sydney Meriwether wrote:
    DESPICABLE, DISGUSTING, DISGRACEFUL! New Labour at its very best: using tonnes of taxpayers' money to cover up its own astronomical failures while ensuring its rich buddies get a good slice of the big pie. Pensioners and the poor dying in their homes this winter because they can't afford to run a single bar fire and fat cats get a bumper cash bonus to save their winter holidays to Monaco... GRRRRRRRRRR... -- Sydney Meriwether The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    its all right for the rest of world but not us ? new labour and glasgow city council cause collapse of the world economy ?
    Posted by: Ronnie Cee, Glasgow on 3:33pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    So, I as a taxpayer will lend the Banks £2,000 of my tax money in order that they can make a profit out of me by charging me an exorbitant interest rate on the money THAT I LENT THEM!!

    Seems that this banking lark is one I'd like to get into.

    Now, Gordon Brown when Chancellor told us to be PRUDENT as he would be the best man to advise us on taxation and savings. Now (as Prime Minister) he authorises the Chancellor to rob us blind to bail out those PRUDENT Banks.

    I wonder if MP's pensions are at as much risk as mine? Doubt it though. PRUDENCE can only go so far...eh Gordon?
    Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 3:34pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    iloveglasgow wrote:
    Sydney Meriwether wrote:
    DESPICABLE, DISGUSTING, DISGRACEFUL! New Labour at its very best: using tonnes of taxpayers' money to cover up its own astronomical failures while ensuring its rich buddies get a good slice of the big pie. Pensioners and the poor dying in their homes this winter because they can't afford to run a single bar fire and fat cats get a bumper cash bonus to save their winter holidays to Monaco... GRRRRRRRRRR... -- Sydney Meriwether The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    its all right for the rest of world but not us ? new labour and glasgow city council cause collapse of the world economy ?
    You'll need to run that one by me again love... am no a mind reader... what's your point caller???

    --
    Sydney Meriwether
    The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    Posted by: jugdement joe, glasgow on 3:44pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    I see there has been a half % interest rate cut, it will be interesting to see if the main lenders pass this rate cut onto mortgage payers.

    Or whether they use the rate cut as a way of balancing their books ???????
    Posted by: Sydney Meriwether, Glasgow on 3:54pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    jugdement joe wrote:
    I see there has been a half % interest rate cut, it will be interesting to see if the main lenders pass this rate cut onto mortgage payers.

    Or whether they use the rate cut as a way of balancing their books ???????
    If you have to even ask that question then it's clear that you're as thick as your posts suggest!

    --
    Sydney Meriwether
    The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    Posted by: stevo, Glasgow on 4:19pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Sydney Meriwether wrote:
    jugdement joe wrote: I see there has been a half % interest rate cut, it will be interesting to see if the main lenders pass this rate cut onto mortgage payers. Or whether they use the rate cut as a way of balancing their books ???????
    If you have to even ask that question then it's clear that you're as thick as your posts suggest! -- Sydney Meriwether The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    Sydney, don't get gallus now or you may receive a boot in the tea towel holder
    Posted by: IainGlasgow07, glasgow on 5:03pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Ronnie Cee wrote:
    So, I as a taxpayer will lend the Banks £2,000 of my tax money in order that they can make a profit out of me by charging me an exorbitant interest rate on the money THAT I LENT THEM!! Seems that this banking lark is one I'd like to get into. Now, Gordon Brown when Chancellor told us to be PRUDENT as he would be the best man to advise us on taxation and savings. Now (as Prime Minister) he authorises the Chancellor to rob us blind to bail out those PRUDENT Banks. I wonder if MP's pensions are at as much risk as mine? Doubt it though. PRUDENCE can only go so far...eh Gordon?
    Check the credit agreement terms on any loans and credit cards you have, they could be unenforceable. Also so if the bank don't have the original agreement signed by both you and them. Might be a good bargaining chip to get your interest rates lowered.
    Posted by: The thinking alternative, City centre on 5:30pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    The colapse in value in HBOS and RBS yesterday approaching 40% in one day shows the smokescreen up for what it was a few weeks ago when politicians were blaming the short sellers for HBOS's situation. They put a ban on short trading which is currently in place but still the 40% colapse. The government is running out of people to blame. All reasonable thinking people know that the negligent parties are the banks themselves and also the FSA which is shown itself to be unfit for purpose and must place some of the blame on the government itself.
    Posted by: thistlemad, Ayrshire on 6:24pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    FIRST the "interest rate" set by the BoE SHOULD be the maximum MORTGAGE rate, NOT the rate that the banks lend to each other. THAT might kick start the economy, or at least give us all a sense of realism.
    Second, ALL bank share trading should be suspended worldwide, because the wide boys are STILL making a killing out of all this carry on.
    And third, alyjough we all know nothing will happen, those at the top of every bank should be arrested (the entire boards) and charged with fraud and corruption. Although it may be hard to prove, it basically comes down to this ...... they have made BILLIONS, paid themselves MILLIONS in wages and bonuses, by allowing hundreds of billions in loans to be made KNOWING they could and would never be repaid.
    As for this "short selling", who in their right minds could legally or even just morally justify handing over billions of pounds worth of shares without payment?????????? That is criminal incompetence at the very least.
    Thatcher started the "greed" culture, even the Americans had to sprint to catch up with her. New "Labour" was always just a continuation of Tory initiated greed.
    Well folks, we are now going to pay the heavy price for thirty years of greed, sleaze, fraud and theft.
    But hey, I know what`ll take everyones minds off everything ................. look out for World War 3 starting near you soon!!!!
    Melodramatic? Not really. Think about it, after the war, probably half the population will be dead, there will be jobs for all rebuilding the infrastructure of the whole world.
    And we certainly will be too busy to remember to execute the morons and greed merchants who started it all ......... so WW4 in 50 years anyone????????
    Posted by: Ronnie Cee, Leeds on 6:51pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Thistlemad. Maybe you haven't realised it but over half of the world's nations are actually AT WAR!!

    Perhaps we don't really read too much into the wars that are taking place all over Africa,The Indian Sub Continent, The Middle East, Asia and Europe. But, and it's a big but...we have spent countless £billions as our share of the cost. Maybe you're right kiddo, not too many are being killed these days, the last real biggie was the Iraq/Iran war (over one million casualties). Our recent wars only accounted for a few hundred thousand...small beer eh?

    Mind you, I doubt if any nation could afford to participate in a World War Three. Why bother though, as Saint Kentigern prophesised, the Yellow Man will eventually rule the world. When? Anybodies guess really.

    And I thought this debate was about the World Banking fiasco...silly me!
    Posted by: Brad on 7:05pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Sydney Meriwether wrote:
    Helmut de Smegma wrote: This is a gobal problem and there`s muppets on here blaming it on New Labour?
    It's a global problem caused by greed and mismanagement... step forward Tony Blair, the chief greedy mismanager! -- Sydney Meriwether The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    Aye, and it's Blair that caused Iceland to take Putin's $5bn; the US to put $700bn (?) into shoring up financial services; the Dutch to buy up Fortis; Ireland and Greece to guarantee savings, etc. etc. Aye, it's all New Labour's doing. I'm sure that's what world leaders are saying... (or was it just you?).

    Sydney, your broad-reaching grasp of global economics is dazzling... once again, you completely miss the point. But at least you didn't mention GCC; that's a start.
    Posted by: Titus a duxas, Ft.McMurray on 7:06pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Why dont they just drop the mortgage intrest rates? it'll put a few more quid in home owners pocket each month which in turn will get people to spend in the stores, And raise the intrest rate on credit card holders making them pay more, if you cant afford yer I-pods or trainers then you will pay more for them on the tick
    Posted by: SPAMALOT, southside on 7:10pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Brad wrote:
    Sydney Meriwether wrote:
    Helmut de Smegma wrote: This is a gobal problem and there`s muppets on here blaming it on New Labour?
    It's a global problem caused by greed and mismanagement... step forward Tony Blair, the chief greedy mismanager! -- Sydney Meriwether The voice of Glasgow's silenced majority.
    Aye, and it's Blair that caused Iceland to take Putin's $5bn; the US to put $700bn (?) into shoring up financial services; the Dutch to buy up Fortis; Ireland and Greece to guarantee savings, etc. etc. Aye, it's all New Labour's doing. I'm sure that's what world leaders are saying... (or was it just you?). Sydney, your broad-reaching grasp of global economics is dazzling... once again, you completely miss the point. But at least you didn't mention GCC; that's a start.
    watch out for the TMC their a pair
    Posted by: thistlemad, Ayrshire on 7:56pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Titus a duxas wrote:
    Why dont they just drop the mortgage intrest rates? it'll put a few more quid in home owners pocket each month which in turn will get people to spend in the stores, And raise the intrest rate on credit card holders making them pay more, if you cant afford yer I-pods or trainers then you will pay more for them on the tick
    Sadly Titas, thats too simple a concept for them to grasp.

    LIFE is simple, PEOPLE complicate it.
    Posted by: thistlemad, Ayrshire on 7:57pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Ronnie Cee wrote:
    Thistlemad. Maybe you haven't realised it but over half of the world's nations are actually AT WAR!! Perhaps we don't really read too much into the wars that are taking place all over Africa,The Indian Sub Continent, The Middle East, Asia and Europe. But, and it's a big but...we have spent countless £billions as our share of the cost. Maybe you're right kiddo, not too many are being killed these days, the last real biggie was the Iraq/Iran war (over one million casualties). Our recent wars only accounted for a few hundred thousand...small beer eh? Mind you, I doubt if any nation could afford to participate in a World War Three. Why bother though, as Saint Kentigern prophesised, the Yellow Man will eventually rule the world. When? Anybodies guess really. And I thought this debate was about the World Banking fiasco...silly me!
    In regard to your final sentence ......... ITS ALL RELEVENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Posted by: SizzleRockwell, Glasgow on 8:52pm Wed 8 Oct 08
    Sid Meriwether for president.
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