TALKSPORT host Andy Goldstein is expected to generate debate on his late night show.

But when he entered into a discussion about the merits of Scottish football, the relative pressures on clubs north of the border with their English counterparts and where Rangers sit in world football, he probably did not reckon on the backlash he would get.

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Even his guest on the Sports Bar programme, journalist Darren Lewis, at one point refused to contribute as the two argued for over an hour over the merits of Scottish football and how the debate was being conducted.

During an often bad-tempered argument, Goldstein said Rangers "are not a massive club outside of Scotland" adding: "You know that, and I know that".

The former Soccer AM presenter argued that English Championship club Aston Villa was a bigger club than the Ibrox side, saying more people had heard of the Birmingham-based team worldwide.

Evening Times: Brendan Rodgers.jpg

He said there was no pressure on Celtic manager Brendan Rodgers in an "uncompetitive" Scottish Premiership telling one caller: "I could to that job. You could do that job."

He added: "There's no other team in Scotland at the moment."

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And he claimed there was "no pressure" on Steven Gerrard taking over at Rangers, before changing his position to say there was less pressure on him than on managers chasing the financial rewards of a promotion to the English Premier League by getting promotion from the Championship.

The backlash started with Lewis who said at one point: "This is not a debate. It's ridiculous."

Evening Times: 04/05/18. IBROX - GLASGOW. Steven Gerrard meets the fans as he is unveiled as the new Rangers manager.

One Rangers fan caller, James Goldstein told Goldstein: "I was all right till a few minutes ago. You are absolutely clueless, my friend."

Another fan told him: "I used to think you talked a lot of sense until tonight, when you compare Aston Villa to Rangers and saying Rangers aren't a big club outside Scotland. That is what you said. Rangers and Celtic are two of the biggest clubs in Britain, support wise.

"You are comparing us to Aston Villa, you're having a laugh."

On social media some fans were expressed their despair at the level of debate.

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One wrote to Talksport saying: "I hope the station are listening to this cr*p, sort it out.

"You two, acting like squabbling kids, are ruining any enjoyment of this show. Get rid of Darren and sort yourself out Goldstein, you t***er."

The arguments started as Mr Lewis contested the way Mr Goldstein was conducting the debate.

These are the highlights of that discussion.

Lewis: Rangers are a massive club

Goldstein: In Scotland.

Lewis: Yeah, but they are still a massive club.

Goldstein: But he will get them second.

Lewis: They are still a massive club Goldstein: Yeah, but there's no pressure on him up there.

Lewis: No pressure? Are you kidding me?

Lewis: Come on, we are not going to do this. We're not going to do this. We're not going to do this.

Evening Times:

Goldstein: Hold on. I'm not going to do it, but I want to know where you're coming from. Is Rangers a massive club in Scotland or are you talking about England.

Lewis: It's clearly not a massive club in the Premier League, right..

Goldstein ... because they are not in the Premier League.

Lewis: Exactly, that's what I am saying. Why are you doing this when you know what I am talking about.

Goldstein.. I don't...

Lewis: You do know what I am talking about.

Goldstein:Calm down. Don't shout. Lewis: Calm down? Don't patronise me. Listen you know what I am talking about so I don't know why we are having this conversation.


Goldstein: Rangers are not a massive club outside of Scotland. You know that, and I know that.

Lewis: Let the listeners talk about it.

Goldstein: But you know that. Do you think they are. Lewis: I think Rangers have a massive fan base.

Goldstein: Where?

Lewis: Inside and outside of Scotland.

Goldstein: In Europe?

Evening Times:

Lewis: Well, everywhere.

Goldstein: So worldwide now?

Lewis: (sighs).

Goldstein: If I asked you that question about Liverpool, you'd say, 'yes'.

Lewis: I'll say worldwide.

Goldstein: Why didn't you say that in the beginning?

Lewis: I'm saying it now. You know why I wouldn't say it before, is because as far as you are concerned, you don't debate things in the wider context. You're style of debating is ask a question, back someone into a corner and if they say 'yes' or 'no', you've won and you move on.

Goldstein: It's not that. Because when you say Steven Gerrard's under pressure, right, he's under pressure in Scotland to get second.

Lewis: No! Rangers fans will be expecting him to make an improvement at the club, and make some sort of title challenge.

Goldstein: Do you think there's more pressure on a Championship manager, getting a club out the Championship with a potential windfall of £200m than there is on a manager of Rangers.

Lewis: It's apples and oranges. The fact is at their particular club, the fans care about what they do.

Goldstein: You're just talking David Brent, now. That doesn't mean anything, that's just a cliche.

Lewis: Let me put it a different way, in very simple terms, you've said it is different with Villa, as if there's no pressure at Rangers.

Goldstein: I didn't say that, you're misquoting me. I said there's less. Lewis: But there is pressure at each of those clubs..

Goldstein: But not at the same level. What I am saying is that there's less pressure on Gerrard and Rangers than there would be Steve Bruce..

Lewis: I will agree to disagree then. There's the same pressure at Rangers on Gerrard and on Lampard.

Evening Times: New Derby County manager Frank Lampard and owner Melvyn Morris (right) during the press conference at Pride Park Stadium, Derby. PRESS ASSOCIATION Photo. Picture date: Thursday May 31, 2018. See PA story SOCCER Derby. Photo credit should read: Simon Coope

Goldstein: I think it is much greater down south. The reason I think Steve Bruce, or any manager like Frank Lampard would have more pressure is because of the amount of money, which we can't do anything about, involved in English football. It's far greater than in Scottish football. If Lampard or Steve Bruce does or does not manage to get their clubs into the Premier League they have made or lost their owners £150m or £200m. You don't get that pressure in Scotland.

Lewis: You are talking rubbish. They get, what, 50,000 fans at every home game. They got 48,000 fans when they played, I think it was, Ross County.

Goldstein: That's not to do with pressure, that's the amount of people that go through the turnstiles.

Lewis: It's expectation from the club, they're a well supported club.

Goldstein: The fan base of Rangers, compare to any Premier League club or any big club in the Championship.. if you compare Aston Villa to Rangers worldwide, I would say more people have heard of Aston Villa. Aston Villa are a bigger club. They are a sleeping giant. They are!


James, who says he is a Rangers fan: "I was all right till a few minutes ago. You are absolutely clueless, my friend. You think that Thierry Henry going into Aston Villa is [more] pressure than Steven Gerrard at Rangers....

Goldstein: I understand the argument, from a Rangers fan, phoning up national radio and trying to convince the rest of the world that Rangers are a massive club. They're a massive club in Scotland.

James: They are a massive club all over the world, Andy.

Goldstein: No, they're not, James.

Goldstein: There is more pressure when there's more money involved, there's more money involved in getting a Championship club into the Premier League than there is Steven Gerrard getting second and maybe, maybe getting first in the SPL. That is a fact, you cannot argue with.

Evening Times: 04/05/18. IBROX - GLASGOW. (L-R) Rangers’ Managing Director Stewart Robertson, the new Rangers manager Steven Gerrard, Chairman Dave King and Director of Football Mark Allen.

Lewis: You are dismissing Scottish football on the basis that it's not a competitive league.

Goldstein: You are putting words in my mouth.

Lewis: There you go again, you accuse me of speaking over you, and I start to make a contribution to this debate in inverted commas and then you pipe up again. Do you want me to contribute to this debate.

Goldstein: Only if it's factual.

Lewis: Only if it suits you. You don't respect Scottish football. You are saying it's a tinpot league.

Goldstein: I never said the word 'tinpot'. I said it is not competitive. You're putting words in my mouth.

Lewis: I am paraphrasing. It's summing up very succinctly what you've been saying.

Goldstein: It's not competitive! Am I a liar!?

Lewis: There you go again, take the calls, I won't contribute because you want to do all the talking.

Goldstein: I said it is not competitive, do you agree or disagree?

Lewis: I'm not you're stooge. This is not a debate, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

There are clubs at the bottom of the Premier League where managers are under as much pressure, in relative terms as managers at the top. Rangers and Gerrard in relative terms are under just as much pressure as Frank Lampard would be at Derby...because they have an expectant fan base and have owners having invested in the club that want to see a return on that investment.

The Scottish Premier League is not competitive, but I have not been insulting about it like you have. You're dismissive. You're being very disrespectful to Scottish football.


Jamie who says he is a Celtic fan: Rangers have got supporters clubs in Middle East, in Europe, Australia, Asia and even America. You're point is misinformed and nonsense.

Paul, another fan: Rangers went to Manchester [for the 2008 UEFA Cup Final] and took 100,000. Did any other English Championship club have the fanbase to do that?

Goldstein: Obviously not.

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Goldstein: There's no pressure on Brendan Rodgers. I could do that job, you could do that job, there's no other team in Scotland at the moment.

Billy, a fan: "I used to think you talked a lot of sense until tonight, when you compare Aston Villa to Rangers and saying Rangers aren't a big club outside Scotland. That is what you said. Rangers and Celtic are two of the biggest clubs in Britain, support wise.

You are comparing us to Aston Villa, you're having a laugh."